Unsportsmanlike question.

[sj]

Do you have to assign an Unsportsmanlike penalty to a specific person? For example let's say your working a wing and a coach cusses you out such that everyone heard it for several yards around. But you were facing away from him and when you turn you see three assistants in the vicinity. Would you just assign it to one of them? To no one in particular? Would you no-call it? How would you handle it?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by sj

Do you have to assign an Unsportsmanlike penalty to a specific person? For example let's say you're working a wing and a coach cusses you out such that everyone heard it for several yards around. But you were facing away from him and when you turn you see three assistants in the vicinity. Would you just assign it to one of them? To no one in particular? Would you no-call it? How would you handle it?

For some actions, yes; and others, no.

CANADIAN PHILOSOPHY:

I will assign it to the bench if I cannot identify the culprit.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

For some actions, yes; and others, no.

CANADIAN PHILOSOPHY:

I will assign it to the bench if I cannot identify the culprit.

Note that there is a near zero-tolerance in language in our HS leagues. If I player cusses himself out, to himself, then we can let it go. But out loud for others to hear, especially directed right at an official.

How is that not a flag in high school?

[bigjohn]

JimD, in my book that is baiting! I am a coach so you can see why I might say that but JMHO. If you don't like it flag it, if not ignore it.

[Jim D]

The problem in this whole deal is that the wing wasn't sure who said it. It could have come from a coach, but it could have been the chain crew, a photographer or anyone. Most likely it was a coach, but I'd want to be sure before I hit a team for 15. Secondarily, it's going to sound dumb when I have to write up a report to the state and I have to admit I don't know who did the cursing - that it was just a voice behind me.

i don't think asking a coach to repeat a comment to my face ist baiting - it's more of a chance for a retraction.

Again, if I knew who said it in the first place, I'd flag it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jim D

The problem in this whole deal is that the wing wasn't sure who said it. It could have come from a coach, but it could have been the chain crew, a photographer or anyone. Most likely it was a coach, but I'd want to be sure before I hit a team for 15. Secondarily, it's going to sound dumb when I have to write up a report to the state and I have to admit I don't know who did the cursing - that it was just a voice behind me.

i don't think asking a coach to repeat a comment to my face ist baiting - it's more of a chance for a retraction.

Again, if I knew who said it in the first place, I'd flag it.

Just to make sure that I understand...

So some player from the bench keeps yelling out profanities about you directly but you don't flag it because you can't tell who it was?

You go over to try to get them to retract their statements, to no avail.

When you walk away, they start up again. You still can't flag it because why would you change your policy part way through?

[jjrye22]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

JimD, in my book that is baiting! I am a coach so you can see why I might say that but JMHO. If you don't like it flag it, if not ignore it.

I have an advantage here. Officiating in German - but not being German, I can ask them to repeat themselves, because MAYBE I didn't understand correctly. So they have a chance to decide if it was an appropriate comment to make or not, and if they decide it was, then I can flag them for it.
If they are willing to repeat themselves...

I learned that sort of the hard way. I was U and I flagged a kid for the N word - I thought he was taunting an opponent. Turns out the DE was called Niggler and with the mouthpiece I couldn't here the l (I checked the player passes at half time too, and it was true)...

James

[refbuz]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

JimD, in my book that is baiting! I am a coach so you can see why I might say that but JMHO. If you don't like it flag it, if not ignore it.

No coach, its not baiting. Baiting would be him leading the coach in an effort to illicit a specific response just so that you can throw the Unsportsmanlike foul.

Asking a coach out of the blue "do you think I suck?" is baiting.

Asking a coach if they were talking to you after hearing "you suck" is not.

Jim is giving you an out in a situation where he really doesn't want to throw a flag giving your an opponent a free 15 yards.

Whether or not you want to take that out is another story...

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Note that there is a near zero-tolerance in language in our HS leagues. If I player cusses himself out, to himself, then we can let it go. But out loud for others to hear, especially directed right at an official.

What if it's in French at an away game before an Anglophone crowd?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What if it's in French at an away game before an Anglophone crowd?

Je parle français.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Had a game a few years back where the home team (underdog) blew a 13 point lead in the last two minutes of the game. Two fumbles which the favorite converted into TDs. As we ready for the kickoff after the second go-ahead TD, I'm standing on the sideline waiting for the ready-for-play. Behind me comes, "You refs succckkk." Flag flies and the frustrated coach demands to know from me who said it. I turn and say, "Number 41." Hearing that, number 41 says, "The helll it was! Jones said it."

"There's your answer coach."

[Jim D]

I would not call it unless I knew who said it. If the ball were dead or at the next dead ball, I'd stop the clock and talk to the head coach and advise him that such language will not be tolerated, etc. etc. This will serve a couple of purposes - it will gives whoever had the problem a chance to continue the arguement (and let me know who it was for future reference) and say what he wants to my face; it will let the staff know I won't put up with this, and possibly it will allow everyone a chance to calm down.

[Matt-MI]

if it's loud enough that everybody can hear it and the asst coaches won't own up to it then the USC gets charged to the head coach. He is responsible for his sideline and his staff.

[sj]

Originally Posted by Matt-MI

if it's loud enough that everybody can hear it and the asst coaches won't own up to it then the USC gets charged to the head coach. He is responsible for his sideline and his staff.

I won't be able to get to a rule book till late tonight. Is there a specific rule which states this? It's true for basketball but I can't think of where it might be stated for football. Respectfully.

[Reffing Rev.]

Originally Posted by Jim D

I would not call it unless I knew who said it. If the ball were dead or at the next dead ball, I'd stop the clock and talk to the head coach and advise him that such language will not be tolerated, etc. etc. This will serve a couple of purposes - it will gives whoever had the problem a chance to continue the arguement (and let me know who it was for future reference) and say what he wants to my face; it will let the staff know I won't put up with this, and possibly it will allow everyone a chance to calm down.

A wise old official once told me about USC. If it warrants a warning, it warrants a flag. Warning are to keep USCs from happening, not responding to them.