Fake FG/Try

[GPC2]

A couple of weeks ago LSU ran a fake field goal where the holder flipped the ball to the kicker with his knee still on the ground. Since football is a copycat we have seen that play a couple of times in the last few weeks in our High School games.

This past week the play was run, and the holder was correctly ruled down at the point where he flipped the ball. This clip was caught on TV on one of our High School highlight shows, and unfortunately one of the most respected head coaches in our area (who happens to co-host the highlight show) said something to the effect of - "the zebras really blew that call".

Last night in my JV game one of the coaches was complaining to me about that call and they said they looked all through the rule book and couldn't find a rule that stated that the knee had to be off the ground.

I also am having trouble finding it, and for clarification purposes would like to give the specific reference in the future to coaches that ask about this play.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by GPC2

A couple of weeks ago LSU ran a fake field goal where the holder flipped the ball to the kicker with his knee still on the ground. Since football is a copycat we have seen that play a couple of times in the last few weeks in our High School games.

This past week the play was run, and the holder was correctly ruled down at the point where he flipped the ball. This clip was caught on TV on one of our High School highlight shows, and unfortunately one of the most respected head coaches in our area (who happens to co-host the highlight show) said something to the effect of - "the zebras really blew that call".

Last night in my JV game one of the coaches was complaining to me about that call and they said they looked all through the rule book and couldn't find a rule that stated that the knee had to be off the ground.

I also am having trouble finding it, and for clarification purposes would like to give the specific reference in the future to coaches that ask about this play.

REPLY: I dont have my book with me but it's up front in 4-2-2 (probably 4-2-2a) where they say the ball is dead when a runner touches the ground with other than a hand or foot. It's an exception list there. At least, I think that's where it is.

[GPC2]

Got it!! Thanks Bob M., I am not as sharp as I should be on where things are in the rule book. The rule book doesn't explicitly say that this play is illegal, but there is a play example in the case book - 4.2.2 SITUATION A (page 28) states:

K1 has one knee on the ground to hold for an apparent field-goal attempt. K2 is in position to kick. K1 catches the snap and : (a) places the ball which is kicked by K2; or (b) rises and either runs or passes; or (c) without rising, flips the ball to K2 who attempts to run. RULING: Legal in (a) and (b). In (c), the ball becomes dead immediately when K1 tosses it to K2 while K1 has his knee on the ground.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by GPC2

A couple of weeks ago LSU ran a fake field goal where the holder flipped the ball to the kicker with his knee still on the ground. Since football is a copycat we have seen that play a couple of times in the last few weeks in our High School games.

This past week the play was run, and the holder was correctly ruled down at the point where he flipped the ball. This clip was caught on TV on one of our High School highlight shows, and unfortunately one of the most respected head coaches in our area (who happens to co-host the highlight show) said something to the effect of - "the zebras really blew that call".

Last night in my JV game one of the coaches was complaining to me about that call and they said they looked all through the rule book and couldn't find a rule that stated that the knee had to be off the ground.

I also am having trouble finding it, and for clarification purposes would like to give the specific reference in the future to coaches that ask about this play.

CANADIAN RULING:

Player is down.

[txrefcshou]

NCAA. IMO it should be obvious no one is in position at the snap to kick the ball for me to call it that way.

[Rick KY]

GPC2, The rule does indeed say this play is illegal in Fed. Rule 4-2-2 has an exception for the holder who has his knee(s) in contact with the ground to place and hold the ball to be kicked. Another exception for the holder to rise to advance, hand, kick or pass the ball.

There is no exception for the holder to pass the ball with his knee touching the ground. Without such an exception the holder is down and ball is dead.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Just to be aware of our wording here...there's nothing 'illegal' about this play. It's just that the ball is dead when the holder tosses it from the knee (Federation only).

[dumbref]

There is one more important element - there must be a player in position to kick at the time of the snap. If the kicker goes in motion, the holder is down if his knee is on the ground. Had that once.

[Rick KY]

Thanks for that correction Bob. By illegal I meant that K could not legally execute this type of fake FG/Try. But there is no foul here, since the play is dead the moment the holder passed the ball to another K player with his knee touchign the ground.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Rick KY

Thanks for that correction Bob. By illegal I meant that K could not legally execute this type of fake FG/Try. But there is no foul here, since the play is dead the moment the holder passed the ball to another K player with his knee touchign the ground.

REPLY: RickKY...I knew that you knew what you meant. But I wanted to make sure that any of the newer guys reading this were aware that there's no foul involved.

[Suudy]

Well, this is dredging up an old thread.

I was the WH at a freshman game last night. A is up 12-0 with about 2 min left in the game, and scores their 3rd TD to go up 18-0. They line up for the try in a scrimmage kick formation.

Great snap to the holder. Sure enough, while on his knee, the holder flips the ball over his head to a kicker running right. I blow it dead immediately.

Coach is irate. Says that "it was legal for LSU." And I reminded him, "And LSU plays on Sat, under NCAA rules." He then goes on to say that the varsity "runs this play all the time, and it isn't called dead for them."

Thanks to the forums here, I was well prepared for the proper NFHS ruling.