starting on a yard line
 

Since hearing some NFL officials speak 2 years ago we have gone with the theory of always having 1st and 10 start on a yard line in a non-critical spot on the field (eg., after a change of possession, start on the 32 rather than 31.75). My first question, do other officials do this (just for the record, I think this is great on a well marked field)? Watching the NFL or major college, I see them do this all the time now.

My second question...if you do this, what is your procedure on measurements? It seems, at times, our referee says something like "they are short of the yard line, it's 3rd down," while other times he'll say "let's measure to be sure," and afterward he admits that he knew it was short, but he measured just for the sake of appearance. Just today I saw a Big 10 crew not measure when the spot was inches short of the 10 yard line (the line they knew was the LTG). I knew it was short based on the line, but someone who didn't realize that they use the yard line for reference may not known how they could tell it was short from across the field. Just wondering how other people in the same situations do this.

Yes, this is done in various (but not necessarily all) Canadian leagues that I do.

We do it all the time on COP. We will not measure if we are sure we started on a line, and will tell the coach why we are not. They rarely have a problem with it.

The thing about this mechanic is that no matter how you cut it, you are either taking away earned yardage or giving away unearned yardage.

No, you're not.

You maybe taking away earned inches or giving away earned inches but there's is no yardage involved.

Once the ball is snapped, inches in one direction or another is not going to matter a bit. Greater discrepanices are mistakenly made when spotting the ball and moving the ball from the side zones. Spotting the football is not an exact science. There are always going to be inches gained and inches lost.

This is a great mechanic on a well marked field between the 20s. Inside the 20s every blade of grass or carpet fiber counts.

Yup. We do it all the time. Not only on COP situations, but on first downs when we can get away with it, too, on well-marked fields.

why do you make it a point to start on a yard line? why don't you just spot it where the spot should be? I don't see the big deal here why you are moving it to a yard line.

We always start on a yard line. Make too much sense not to always know the exact yard to gain would be for a new series.

It's an unwritten rule with us that we start on a yard line. And, it's "inch-age, not yardage." Good point in that spots moved in from outside the hash tend to create more discrepancies than the initial spot of a series.

The better a field is marked, the fewer measurements we have.

Place the ball on the hash, place the box on the hash. Now, we know the ball has to go exactly 10 yards for a 1st. Place the ball between the hashes and the placement of the box is very likely to be off, which means the sticks will be off as well. You may well be asking the offense to gain 10 yards and a foot for a 1st down.

Also, if the line to gain is on a hash or your mark, it's much easier to know if you've made the line to gain. It also cuts down on measuring unnecesssarily.

This philosophy may have cost Auburn the game against LSU. The LJ marked a spot on the line when it was quite obvious he was down at least a foot or more short of the line. It was a third down play, which after measurement resulted in a first down. More importantly, the clock would have continued to run. LSU scored with 0:01 time remaining.

Fourth and inches VS first and 10 may change the play calling, the defense, the time outs remaining – any number of things. But we will never know. It didn’t make it easier on the HL, he still had to bring the chains from across the field to measure to the nose of the ball!

Was it philosophy or just a bad spot? What does an inch or two matter – “when we can get away with it”?

I am not talking about doing it in the middle of a series (i.e. a spot after 3rd down)--then every inch can be critical. I just mean spot it on a yard line for 1/10 between the 20's.

You clearly didn't read my post. COP or first downs. Never on second, third, or fourth down. There is no such philosophy then as ten yards is ten yards ONCE THE CHAINS ARE SET.

Golly...wonder is it possible that the HL simply disagrees with where you say the spot was?

As has been stated, no one has advocated doing this at anytime other than on 1st down between the 20's.

Ok, that makes sense. Additionally, this is also on a play where the runner CLEARLY makes the line to gain, correct? (like by a couple yards or more so the spot doesn't matter in regards to getting the first down)

No, we only do it on COP or long 1st downs, (plays of 20 yards or more) and as stated above, not when the ball is inside either 20 yard line.

The time you do this is on kickoffs, punts, long gains with the first down and any change of possession. We do this all the time and that is that. It works. I have never heard a single coach complain about it. It makes the knowledge of the first down on well marked fields obvious. BTW, most college conferences and the NFL both advocate this practice. Inches or even a half of a yard is not going to make that big of a difference.

Peace

Well, didn’t I hit the hornet’s nest. You will be surprised to know that my personal opinion on this philosophy is closer to yours than my post may have indicated. I chose this slightly embellished approach (based on a conversation with a co-worker) to drive home a point. Like it or not we live in a world of perception – from coaches, fans and the talking heads. We must use extreme discretion when employing this philosophy, guarding against the impression of incompetence and impropriety. And as you point out, there are times we should never use this philosophy and it is important to explore those times. Thanks for doing that. Are there other times?

Here one of my no-no’s: After a measurement

Do you do it on incomplete 4th down passes and 4th down plays where the line to gain was not achieved?

We have started doing this, too and, for the most part, I like it. It helps make us seem competent. However, something still bothers me about it. If the timer lets a few extra seconds run off the clock, we are instructed to correct the timing error. In short my question is, if 5 seconds matters so much, why doesn't 5 inches?

By whom and under what circumstances are you adding this time to the clock?

The 2006 edition of High School Football Rules by Topic addresses correctable timing errors and states, "The correction procedure applies to obvious errors. The coverage does not authorize attempting to correct trivial or incidental lag starting or stopping the clock. The error must be in an acknowledged discrepancy in the time and does include a slight lag due to human reaction."

In the USAn codes, that reverses A's & B's restraining lines, and at least theoretically the down box and back stick of the chain should go on B's line, which should result in moving them the length of the ball in the case of the incomplete pass. In Canadian codes there's only one "line of scrimmage" so it would not move in case of the incomplete pass; rather, the spotting of the ball would be reversed to keep its foremost point the same.

In 1980 I put the following situation to Brice Durbin at the Fed office in Kansas City. (I kept calling him "Bruce", thinking I was mishearing his name. He was the first Brice I ever heard of.):

3rd down, A's runner carries the ball with its long axis perpendicular to the sidelines to a spot such that it barely gets entirely into the field of play. The ball is spotted according to its foremost point, then made RFP by rotating it with its long axis parallel to the sidelines, leaving the rearmost point of the ball in A's end zone. 4th down, A's legal forward pass is incomplete. Do you now award a TD to B, because the ball's spotted as per the previous down, part of it in A's end zone?

He answered that that's why they tell their officials to always ready the ball in such a way as to be entirely in the field of play. Presumably following the 3rd down run above, the back end of the ball would be used as the rotation point instead of its front.

Situation doesn't arise in Canadian football, where the ball is always readied with its entirety outside either team's 1 yard line, and where there's only one "line of scrimmage" anyway. (Maybe that's why their rules refer to "point" instead of "spot" -- the ball is literally on a geometric point rather than occupying space.) B's restraining line is 1 yard their side of the LOS.

Robert

Because realistically, as long as you are consistant, those 5 inches don't matter. Does it it really create an advantage for A if you set the chains up on the 30 rather 29 3/4 yardline? No. 10 yards is 10 yards. A needs to go 10 yards for a 1st down, regardless of the line that the chains are set up on.

If your on a well marked field it just looks better, and makes it easier for the wings.

[QUOTE=refbuz]Because realistically, as long as you are consistant, those 5 inches don't matter. Does it it really create an advantage for A if you set the chains up on the 30 rather 29 3/4 yardline? No. 10 yards is 10 yards.

It creates an advantage for B if they get stopped on 4th down 2 inches from the goal line.

Really???

What is B's advantage in your scenario? That they're gaining 34 inches of field position???

My crew tries to start on a hash mark when practical. Those times include long gains where a first down is clearly achieved, following kicks and after a change of possession. Another thing we try to avoid it placing the ball between the 10 and 11 yard line, which would allow the offense a chance to make a first down inside of the 1 yard line.

When you factor in the inexact science of judging forward progress and then moving the ball to the inbound marks or trying to have the umpire place the ball in line with the wing official's spot when a run ends in the middle of the field a couple of inches one way or the other isn't significant.

Over the course of a game the inches gained or lost for any given team tend to balance out. Excluding goal line situations, it's not very often that A is stopped just short of the goal line.

When you look at the big picture this practice helps the game run smoother. It's easier on the chain crews and is a huge advantage when in determining if a measurement is needed.

Inches matter close to a goal line. The loss of a foot or so is a common result of a play from scrimmage. That's why someone specified a ways up in this thread, "outside the 20 yard lines".

Robert

Canadian Ruling
 

CANADIAN RULING:

On cases where yards are not gained, the rulebook explicity states that a TD cannot be awarded as the result of this ball movement.

Your statements in red could not be more accurate.