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-   -   Wingmen, get the heck out of bounds. Damn rookie mistake could really cost a team (https://forum.officiating.com/football/38762-wingmen-get-heck-out-bounds-damn-rookie-mistake-could-really-cost-team.html)

RIRef Tue Oct 09, 2007 07:02pm

Wingmen, get the heck out of bounds. Damn rookie mistake could really cost a team
 
Fist year on the HS board. I have done a hand full of HS games so far. Well, this mistake I made was critical, and I will never forget it.
Blue VS White. (Yes, I'm leaving the team names out on purpose) Both are undefeated. White is on the verge of putting the game away throughout the day. Blue just won't go away. They are hanging tough. It was about 93 degrees Saturday, and on the black tire artificial turf it was about 110... well it felt like that anyway.

Ok, so we are late in the 4th, and white scores a TD, and is up by 8. They line up for the XP to put it away, and hit the damn upright.
Blue is still in it. about 2 minutes on the clock, and blue takes the ball and starts driving... the game was really awesome to ref, I mean this is what it's all about, until.....
Blue is on the 35 going in. The QB takes the snap, and steps back and fires to my side of the field. The WR catches it, and I am ready to follow him down field as I should. he has the ball in his hands for a tenth of a second. He does the hook and ladder to the the back coming up right behind me. (the back/side of him) I am less than 5 feet from the sideline.. 5 feet! I was a deer in the headlights. I had no place to go. I made the game winning tackle. He ran into me and we both went down. The ball popped out, and he was able to recover. However, as far as I could tell from down on my ***, he had the defenders beat, and the back had clear sailing. I look up on the clock and there is about a minute left. I am praying to the Gods they score...... They don't......
There is one assistant screaming like a loon on the sideline.. I am very surprised it is just one.
I deserve it, and I know it.

After the game, I called the coach over, and I said I was so sorry. I could not of been more sincere than I was.

Lesson learned! and a big one! You will never EVER catch me on the field again when the ball is on my side. period.

When I was in HS, I remember a teacher telling me the best way to remember something is to have some punch you in the face when they say it.

I am starting to understand just what he meant

JugglingReferee Tue Oct 09, 2007 07:34pm

Thanks for sharing. I hope others learn from it as well.

MJT Tue Oct 09, 2007 09:43pm

Just emailed it to my crew as a reminder that you never have to be on the field!!! Thanks for sharing.

Jim D Wed Oct 10, 2007 09:06am

OK, I'm going to disagree here. If you follow your own resolution, you'll miss more calls than you would have had this never happened. From the description you gave, it sounds like you were in pretty good position - behind and wide on this play and ready to follow it down the sideline.

Stuff happens and because of an unusual play, you got caught in the path of the runner. It happens from time to time - same thing on an interception or lots of time as an umpire. This is all part of the game. Remember, the runner ran into you instead of going around you.

If you keep your vow to never be on the field again when the ball is on your side of the field, you risk becoming a very marginal official for the rest of your career.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 10, 2007 09:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim D
OK, I'm going to disagree here. If you follow your own resolution, you'll miss more calls than you would have had this never happened. From the description you gave, it sounds like you were in pretty good position - behind and wide on this play and ready to follow it down the sideline. Stuff happens and because of an unusual play, you got caught in the path of the runner. If you keep your vow to never be on the field again when the ball is on your side of the field, you risk becoming a very marginal official for the rest of your career.

I'm a HL as well, and cannot imagine any need for me to be on the field at all on a play that's coming my way (heck - except for pinch-ins on goal-lines and close 1st downs or fumbles ... I can't think of why I'd need to be on the field even if the play is going the other way). Your statement that staying off the field will make you a marginal official is just way off. Why would you say such a thing, especially to a rookie who has just understood firsthand why we shouldn't be out there. You say he was in perfect position... why is "on the field" a perfect position on a play your way.

ESPECIALLY on plays your way or along your sideline, STAY THE HECK OFF THE FIELD.

Please enlighten me as to why you would consider ON THE FIELD a good position on a play like this (even without the lateral).

Jim D Wed Oct 10, 2007 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder
I'm a HL as well, and cannot imagine any need for me to be on the field at all on a play that's coming my way (heck - except for pinch-ins on goal-lines and close 1st downs or fumbles ... I can't think of why I'd need to be on the field even if the play is going the other way). Your statement that staying off the field will make you a marginal official is just way off. Why would you say such a thing, especially to a rookie who has just understood firsthand why we shouldn't be out there. You say he was in perfect position... why is "on the field" a perfect position on a play your way.

ESPECIALLY on plays your way or along your sideline, STAY THE HECK OFF THE FIELD.

Please enlighten me as to why you would consider ON THE FIELD a good position on a play like this (even without the lateral).

From the description, it sounds like the play had already passed him. He was behind the play and wide, just a few feet inside the sideline ready to follow the runner down the sideline to the endzone. That's a perfect postion to observe both the runner, the sideline and anything else.

If he is outside the sideline, there is more chance of someone - a coach, player, ball boy, etc. stepping up to get a better view of the play as it heads down the sideline. If he's out there he may need to swerve around them and get left behind. About five feet in for this particular situation sounds about right. Maybe he could have been a yard wider but his position wasn't bad at all.

Obviously if this was an interception and the play was heading toward me down the sideline I'd get off the field and out of the way, but since the play had moved passed him, he was fine.

9redskin4 Wed Oct 10, 2007 09:56am

I have had an experience that relates to this situation. A couple of years ago I was doing a televised state playoff game as the L. The main concern of my performance that the evaluator pointed out was that I was on the field too much. I asked for some clarification and he gave the exact example of what happened to the guy above. I am very comfortable on the field because most of the teams in my area play traditional smashmouth football (3 yards and a cloud of dust). It has been hard for me to adjust, but every game I verbally tell myself to stay wide and off the field. In reality, I can actually see more of the game and have become a better official using this advice. This is great that a rookie as realized his mistake and is willing to make changes. I would suggest, as mbcrowder already has, that the only time you come on the field is to spot a critical 1st down, on short and goal to goal plays, in instances where a safety might occur, and to watch for kicker/holder infractions on PAT's and field goals.

I do have to add that since I started staying off the field, I have had quite a few close encounters with coaches in the coaching box. I now tell the coaches that if I hit them it is unintentional and that I may throw a flag and give a sideline warning to remind them to give me some room to work.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 10, 2007 09:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim D
From the description, it sounds like the play had already passed him. He was behind the play and wide, just a few feet inside the sideline ready to follow the runner down the sideline to the endzone. That's a perfect postion to observe both the runner, the sideline and anything else.

If he is outside the sideline, there is more chance of someone - a coach, player, ball boy, etc. stepping up to get a better view of the play as it heads down the sideline. If he's out there he may need to swerve around them and get left behind. About five feet in for this particular situation sounds about right. Maybe he could have been a yard wider but his position wasn't bad at all.

Obviously if this was an interception and the play was heading toward me down the sideline I'd get off the field and out of the way, but since the play had moved passed him, he was fine.

I suppose mechanics vary across the country... but a wingman following the play from 5 feet onto the field here would get not just dinged on an eval, but likely some words from his crew chief as well. There's SO much you can't see from ON the field (most notably - did he step out of bounds), because you get blocked by pursuing defenders. You need to be out of bounds on this play, trailing the play.

If your worry is sideline personnel getting in your way, you're not managing your sideline very well, and if you are, but they get in the way anyway, you have laundry to address that situation.

johnnyg08 Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:01am

I would just increase your vision on the field...sounds like you're tunnel visioned and missed what was happening...in terms of watching the entire play unfold. I'm not saying that you don't understand football...because I don't know you...but if you were watching the entire play unfold, you probably should've seen him coming...so say "I'm NEVER going out on the field again..." is not really a fair statement. You made a mistake...we all make them...simply learn from it and move on...

Jim D Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:15am

I knew I'd stir up some arguments on this and that's fine. I've been around long enough to see trends in officiating swing from one philosophy to another. I personally like to work wide but I'm on the field more than I'm off, and I think coverage is better that way. I've seen guys way to close and I've seen wingmen who won't come on the field under any circumstances.

What I really worry about is a younger official making a comment like "You will never EVER catch me on the field again when the ball is on my side. period." I know he's overreacting right now, but if he really follows that promise, his career is heading down the tubes. You have to constantly adjust your mechanics to the game - the field, the teams, the game situation, etc. if you are to be an effective official. Sometimes be on, sometimes be off but be where you need to be to do the best job.

johnnyg08 Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:35am

I agree Jim D...I've only been working FED ball for about 10 seasons now so I've only seen a few things...but I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to adjusting to the game...there are certain mechanics that you'll never want to do...example: (umpire signals touchdown)...but things like positioning has to change with the game...in order to do your job...I agree with Jim

Ref Ump Welsch Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:27am

I do have to add that since I started staying off the field, I have had quite a few close encounters with coaches in the coaching box. I now tell the coaches that if I hit them it is unintentional and that I may throw a flag and give a sideline warning to remind them to give me some room to work.

I only have one problem with this sideline warning, even with the coaches who are entitled to the box. We had a few incidents where the coaches didn't get out of the way, even though they were in the box, and the wing guys would throw a sideline warning flag. The head coaches who got those flags called the supervisor of officials and had some issues about this. We were told in our meetings that if we had a problem, to remember that they were in their box and just need to be warned, even if it has to be more than once. We were told we could NOT throw a sideline warning flag as long as the coaches remained in the box. I was like, that's a load of bull, so what I've done is give them a verbal "reminder" first and then if they still got in my way, I'd would give them a "I may be old, but tougher than nails" line to give them the idea I'm not beyond running them over if I have to.

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9redskin4
I do have to add that since I started staying off the field, I have had quite a few close encounters with coaches in the coaching box. I now tell the coaches that if I hit them it is unintentional and that I may throw a flag and give a sideline warning to remind them to give me some room to work.

MAY?

If they are in your way, it's sideline interference, not a sideline warning. SW's are for when they don't listen when you remind them to back up, or they have to be reminded to back up too often.

PaulJak Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder
MAY?

If they are in your way, it's sideline interference, not a sideline warning. SW's are for when they don't listen when you remind them to back up, or they have to be reminded to back up too often.

Mike,

Can you give me a rule number for this? I don't have my books, but looked this up earlier this year and found that it covered coaches being out of the box and intentionally contacting an official. In this case they are in the box and I'd have a hard time making the case that the contact was intentional.

Don't get me wrong, I work with my toes on the sideline or behind it, I'm just looking for rule support for a coach getting in my way when he was legally entitled to the same space. It would be so nice to have even a 1 yard band between the side line and the coaches box.

Paul

MD Longhorn Wed Oct 10, 2007 01:29pm

9-1-5 (a and b) for Sideline Warnings.
9-2-2 for being on the field of play.


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