Legal or Illegal Motion

[Ed Hickland]

I seem to recall reading an interpretation of this play. Does anyone recall seeing it?

Team A comes set. A21 goes in motion across the field. As he passes the QB, the QB gives a foot tap.

Legal or illegal?

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

I seem to recall reading an interpretation of this play. Does anyone recall seeing it?

Team A comes set. A21 goes in motion across the field. As he passes the QB, the QB gives a foot tap.

Legal or illegal?

I know we allow the heel lift to start motion, but in this case the player is already in motion when the foot is moved. This would be an illegal shift since all 11 players are not set for a second AFTER the shift (foot moving) of the QB.

[bisonlj]

I posed a similar question last year. The difference was I had the QB standing when the receiver went in motion, the QB went under center, was set for at least a second and the ball was snapped while the receiver was still in motion. I argued this was an illegal shift (I even had an exact case to back me up), but I was blasted for being too anal on the rule and let it go. I no longer worry about it.

[JugglingReferee]

Wow..... this has raised my "huh"-level of US football to a new level. Forget about micro-managing the athletes every little body move and let them play!

[MJT]

I'm not going to have anything on that little movement. I know "by the letter of the rule" it is a IS at the snap but that it not the intent of the rule. JMHO.

[MD Longhorn]

Unless this foot tap had some effect on the defense, let it go. I've seen a shotgun snap with a man in motion that was prompted by the foot tap quite often - the tap being the signal to the center to snap it in about a second.

[grantsrc]

Dont' go looking for the fly poop in the pepper. Let this go.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

...Team A comes set. A21 goes in motion across the field. As he passes the QB, the QB gives a foot tap.

Legal or illegal?

REPLY: Please don't call that. For years we allowed QB's to left their heel to send players in motion. Now we're allowing them to lift their leg to signal the snapper. The last thing we should want to do now is flag those actions.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: Please don't call that. For years we allowed QB's to left their heel to send players in motion. Now we're allowing them to lift their leg to signal the snapper. The last thing we should want to do now is flag those actions.

Hear me out. Lifting the heel is a signal, so, if A1 is already in motion what does the heel lift signal? Is A1 in motion by mistake and can the defense expect A2 to go in motion? Is A1 in motion as part of a shift and the signal is for A2 to also shift? Is the QB confused? Is the signal meant to confuse the defense and quickly followed by a snap?

My point being the spirit and the intent of the rule is to set the offense for a second. Is the leg lift a way to deceive the defense?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Is the leg lift a way to deceive the defense?

I think this is a reach. I've never seen or heard of a defense being confused because the QB raises his leg, nor have I ever heard anyone complain about this action. His move is not a shift. He's not changing positions. Let it go.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

Hear me out. Lifting the heel is a signal, so, if A1 is already in motion what does the heel lift signal? Is A1 in motion by mistake and can the defense expect A2 to go in motion? Is A1 in motion as part of a shift and the signal is for A2 to also shift? Is the QB confused? Is the signal meant to confuse the defense and quickly followed by a snap?

My point being the spirit and the intent of the rule is to set the offense for a second. Is the leg lift a way to deceive the defense?

The spirit and intent of the rule is to make sure the defense is not put at a disadvantage by having a play start with multiple players shifting around. It is NOT to prevent the QB from signalling something to his team (this signal is probably a signal to the center to look forward and then snap the ball - why would allowing the center to raise his head be something we want to prevent?)

[andy1033]

Once again common sense should prevail. Let this go.

[bigjohn]

unless the QB only does this in certain situations that appear he is trying to draw the defense into the neutral zone, it is not something that should be called. If he only does it on 4th and less than 5 and is simulating a snap then it should be considered a false start.


as in this situation on the NFHS website interpretations

SITUATION 4: Fourth and four on A's 35-yard line. K comes to the line in a scrimmage formation. After calling a few signals, A1 says "shift." All 11 players then make a movement. Some players move to a new position for a scrimmage-kick formation, while four interior linemen remain in place and move from a hands-on-thighs position to an upright position and finally to a three-point stance. RULING: This could be ruled a false start if the covering official(s) determine that it was designed to cause B to encroach. In judging the offensive team's intent, the officials should consider whether players move to a new position, the speed and abruptness of movement, down and distance and if any player pretends to have the ball or otherwise simulate action at the snap with the start of a play. (7-1-7; 7-2-6)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

unless the QB only does this in certain situations that appear he is trying to draw the defense into the neutral zone, it is not something that should be called. If he only does it on 4th and less than 5 and is simulating a snap then it should be considered a false start.

Not quite the same thing. Nice try though. If you have watched football in the last 10 years, you would see QBs raising their leg to start a motion. Hell, John Elway did this all the time.

Peace

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

...this signal is probably a signal to the center to look forward and then snap the ball

REPLY: If the player's already in motion, that's precisely what it is. Shotgun teams have been using that signal for years.