Safety or No Safety that is the question

[BrasoFuerte]

I posted this question on another sight but don’t know if every one reads both so I’m posting here too.

I have been having this friendly debate with on of our fellow zebras and I was wondering if brighter minds than ours could help out our debate.

Caseplay 5.3.4 SITUATION B: A1 receives the snap behind his own goal line. A1 advances, but is tackled and the ball becomes dead with its foremost point in the field of play, but part of the ball is in the end zone. RULING: Safety. To avoid a safety, the ball must be advanced completely out of the end zone with no part of it touching the goal line (8-5-2)

Now we both agree with this but here is where we begin to differ.

Lets say that the ball A1 receives the snap at the one yard line and fumbles the ball right at the goal line and falls on the loose ball while half of the ball is still in the field of play and the other half is in the end zone.

Or that A1 gets tackled with the ball partially in the end zone and partially in the field of play (note: the ball never completely enters the end zone on either of the plays mentioned above).

I say SAFETY

[dumbref]

It's a one point safety.

Of course it's a safety! Stick to your guns!

[BrasoFuerte]

That is what told him. But he has been officiating 10 years that is 7 years longer than me.

[dvasques]

oh... since were at that. B receives a kick inside their goaline and:
a) start moving out but doesn't cross the goaline. Stops and kneel down to kill the play
b) start moving lateraly to burk time on the clock then gets tackled in the endzone

are those safeties? I'm having a problem determine momentum here

[wisref2]

Just tell your buddy that coming out of the endzone is the same as going into the endzone. If any part of the ball is breaking the plane of the goal line (the edge that is on the playing field side of the line), the ball is in the end zone. Simple as that. In your case, if any part of the ball is breaking that plane, it's a safety.

As to the two kick plays - in Federation, it is impossible to receive a kick in the end zone - the ball is dead as soon as it breaks the plane of the goal line. So all he's doing is catching a deadball.

As far as force and kicks, there is NEVER any question. The kick is always the force (by rule). A kick doesn't end until it is possessed or the ball is dead. So on a kick play - ANY TIME the kick goes into the end zone, it is a touchback.

Take your last two plays and make them interceptions - remember that if he wasn't responsible for putting the ball in the end zone, he has no responsibility to get it out of the end zone. So those would both be touchbacks on an interception.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by dvasques

oh... since were at that. B receives a kick inside their goaline and:
a) start moving out but doesn't cross the goaline. Stops and kneel down to kill the play
b) start moving lateraly to burk time on the clock then gets tackled in the endzone

are those safeties? I'm having a problem determine momentum here

B could run around all day in the end zone. They didn't put the ball there so unless they bring the ball out of the end zone this will be a touchback.

[dvasques]

That's what I've been thinking. They might run in the endzone (lateral, back or to the front) and as long as they don't get out of it, there can't be a safety.
I'm about to turn that into the official rule down here in Rio but I'm still weighting (sp?) on it

[MJT]

Originally Posted by dvasques

oh... since were at that. B receives a kick inside their goaline and:
a) start moving out but doesn't cross the goaline. Stops and kneel down to kill the play
b) start moving lateraly to burk time on the clock then gets tackled in the endzone

are those safeties? I'm having a problem determine momentum here

You must be talking NCAA or NFL rules cuz if NF the ball would be dead once the kick crossed R's GL. I NCAA or NFL, it is a TB.

[dvasques]

sorry, MJT, I am thinking NFL. Forgot that HS kills the ball on the goal line

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by dvasques

oh... since were at that. B receives a kick inside their goaline and:

Touchback. Nothing else matters.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BrasoFuerte

I posted this question on another site but don’t know if every one reads both so I’m posting here too.

I have been having this friendly debate with on of our fellow zebras and I was wondering if minds brighter [?] than ours could help out our debate.

Caseplay 5.3.4 SITUATION B: A1 receives the snap behind his own goal line. A1 advances, but is tackled and the ball becomes dead with its foremost point in the field of play, but part of the ball is in the end zone. RULING: Safety. To avoid a safety, the ball must be advanced completely out of the end zone with no part of it touching the goal line (8-5-2)

Now we both agree with this but here is where we begin to differ.

Lets say that the ball A1 receives the snap at the one yard line and fumbles the ball right at the goal line and falls on the loose ball while half of the ball is still in the field of play and the other half is in the end zone.

Or that A1 gets tackled with the ball partially in the end zone and partially in the field of play (note: the ball never completely enters the end zone on either of the plays mentioned above).

I say SAFETY

CANADIAN RULING:

Safety in all occurances.

[AndrewMcCarthy]

Originally Posted by BrasoFuerte

Lets say that the ball A1 receives the snap at the one yard line and fumbles the ball right at the goal line and falls on the loose ball while half of the ball is still in the field of play and the other half is in the end zone.

Or that A1 gets tackled with the ball partially in the end zone and partially in the field of play (note: the ball never completely enters the end zone on either of the plays mentioned above).

I say SAFETY

The bottom "line" is whether the ball is in the end zone or not. There is no "partially in". It's either in or not. If any part of the ball breaks the goal line plane, it is in the end zone.