Legal or not?

[Don Mueller]

Originally Posted by Jim D

By rule, since A2 was a receiver and not a potential blocker, it's illegal. I don't like it.

I'm with you, but since when is a receiver NOT a potential blocker?

[Warrenkicker]

Because if the ball is in the air toward A2 he is obviously not a potential blocker. If B is just trying to get past A2 and contacts him then I don't have anything. If the contact by B is intentional then he risks a foul if A2 is not trying to be a blocker. If A2 is looking to catch a pass and is behind the neutral zone then he can't be interfered with but he can be contacted illegally. In this case it was a push so holding is not the answer. Illegal use of hands is the only call left.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Don Mueller

I'm with you, but since when is a receiver NOT a potential blocker?

We have this same argument every year. Our association has 2 WH with completely different interpretations on this: 1) any contact outside of the initial bump in the traditional bump-and-run is illegal use of the hands and 2) no such thing as illegal use of the hands.

And I've posted in the past on this one, trying to find some consensus with which to make an argument either way. And even here there are a variety of interpretations in between.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Even if the ball is in the air, I see nothing wrong with the contact since the defender is allowed to use his hands to contact an opponent above the waist in the back when attempting to catch or recover a loose ball that he can legally possess. (Federation rule 10-3-5c) This is OK as long as the contact is not DPI...and this clearly isn't.

[Suudy]

Even in the original, I'm not understanding why this is legal before the pass is thrown. Since 9.2.3d makes no reference to where the receiver is located relative to the LOS, and 2.3.5b explicitly excludes illegal use of the hands as a defense against pushing, pulling, or warding off an opponent, how is the original situation legal?

Let's change this up a bit. Would this change your ruling?

Receiver A2 runs an out pattern (beyond the line of scrimmage) as a potential receiver and QB A1 is also rolling to the right. Defensive player B1 is heading for the QB. As receiver A2 crosses in front of him while A2 is looking back to the QB, B1 pushes A2 out of his way so he can continue on his path to A1.

Now the receiver is beyond the line. A pass is not yet thrown. Is this illegal use of the hands?

[cmathews]

Granted I don't have my books with me. However, I don't recall any language in the rulebook that says that A must be a potential blocker before B can push them out of the way to get the ball. In the original situation, if the ball is in the air and the contact by B is not below the waist nor otherwise a personal foul, it is legal. There is no DPI behind the LOS and unless it is leading with the head, I probably don't have anything if A2 gets knocked down....I just don't see where anyone can interpret this play as illegal, for any reason, at least not from the Original Post....IMHO

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by cmathews

Granted I don't have my books with me. However, I don't recall any language in the rulebook that says that A must be a potential blocker before B can push them out of the way to get the ball.

It does, in rule 9.2.3d:

Art. 3...A defensive player shall not:
d. Contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker.

Coupled with 2.3.5b (emphasis mine):

Art. 5...A defensive player may also:
b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of the hands.

In the original post, it can be argued that A2 is no longer a potential blocker, thus the contact, even if in an attempt to get to the QB, is illegal use of the hands.

I think the question is whether A2 (or any other eligible receiver) is a potential blocker when behind the line. The key, I think, in the original post is that "A2 is looking back to the QB", thus is no longer a potential blocker.

[truerookie]

I would have a difficult time flagging this play. I have seen situations where a potential receiver turns into a blocker. In OP, I would interpret this situation as the receiver looking to seen the location of the QB until the receiver crosses the LOS. The defender is not 100% sure if the back is a receiver or blocker. Let's watch the entire play before we flag it.

[cmathews]

Originally Posted by Suudy

It does, in rule 9.2.3d:

Art. 3...A defensive player shall not:
d. Contact an eligible receiver who is no longer a potential blocker.

Coupled with 2.3.5b (emphasis mine):

Art. 5...A defensive player may also:
b. Push, pull or ward off an opponent in an actual attempt to get at the runner or a loose ball if such contact is not pass interference, a personal foul or illegal use of the hands.

In the original post, it can be argued that A2 is no longer a potential blocker, thus the contact, even if in an attempt to get to the QB, is illegal use of the hands.

I think the question is whether A2 (or any other eligible receiver) is a potential blocker when behind the line. The key, I think, in the original post is that "A2 is looking back to the QB", thus is no longer a potential blocker.

I would agree that in the backfield they should be considered potential blockers. The way I have always been taught is that they are no longer a potential blocker when they are on the same yard line or behind the defender....and it can be argued that the defense is attemting to get to a loose ball that they can legally touch or posess...granted it hasn't been thrown yet, but it is no more of a stretch to go down this road than to say the back is not a potential blocker in my mind...