Man in motion

[Time2Ref]

Team A in formation.

A1 goes in motion. When A1 gets to the middle of the formation behind QB, he faces the line of scrimmage and "runs in place". Ball is snapped.

I throw the flag. After the play, I report to the referee Illegal Procedure on A1 for not being set for 1 second before snap.

Coach claims A1 is still in motion because he is "running in place".

What do you have?

[JugglingReferee]

It sounds like a play of interest that a coach should discuss with the R and U during the pre-game coaches conference.

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

Team A in formation.

A1 goes in motion. When A1 gets to the middle of the formation behind QB, he faces the line of scrimmage and "runs in place". Ball is snapped.

I throw the flag. After the play, I report to the referee Illegal Procedure on A1 for not being set for 1 second before snap.

Coach claims A1 is still in motion because he is "running in place".

What do you have?

CANADIAN RULING:

Legal. Team A must still meet the other formation requirements if A1 vacated the LS.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Time2Ref

Team A in formation.

A1 goes in motion. When A1 gets to the middle of the formation behind QB, he faces the line of scrimmage and "runs in place". Ball is snapped.

I throw the flag. After the play, I report to the referee Illegal Procedure on A1 for not being set for 1 second before snap.

Coach claims A1 is still in motion because he is "running in place".

What do you have?

The requirement for all to be set 1 second applies to when 2 or more are moving at same time/ If all move to formation and set for 1 second before A1 starts motion then he can still be moving, even if it is running inplace, when ball is snapped.

[ForensicRef]

My understanding is that to be "in motion" you have to be moving parallel to the line, even if you're facing forward you still have to be moving parallel. If you stop, you have to set. So running in place would be an Illegal Shift or probably better, Illegal Procedure, wouldn't it?

[TXMike]

Not under NCAA rules. I do not know about NFHS but seems in the past I have never heard any of the Fed guys calling that type of movement a foul.

[cougar729]

Like TXMike said, if all players were set, and then he went in motion...and doesnt move towards his opponents goal line at the snap, or simulate the snap, it would be legal motion.

[ljudge]

First guys, GET RID of the illegal procedure terminology.

Now for the FED version of illegal shift. ALL players must be set for one full second before anyone goes in motion. If that happens and a man goes in motion, yes, he can stop and run in place. NO foul. Now say that same guy who legally goes in motion and stops for less than one second and the ball is snapped. It's NOT a foul for illegal shift. He's considered by interpretation to still be in motion. That was published about 5 years ago.

The one difference between Fed and NCAA is if everyone gets set for a second, then someone goes in motion and subsequently stops, then another player goes in motion less than a second later you have NO foul in NCAA but DO have a foul in Fed for an illegal shift.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by ljudge

First guys, GET RID of the illegal procedure terminology.

Thank you! There is no such beast as Illegal Procedure. That was removed either last year or a few years back.

Now, for a good discussion on Shifts vs. Motion, Bob M. wrote a terrific piece that I have posted on my resource site. A must read to help clarify this situation.

As for what you describe, you didn't say if everyone was set prior to the motion. If so, I've got nothing. Now, if he goes in motion and not everyone was set, then you have an illegal shift. The only time you will have IM is when the motion man is heading towards the LOS.

Something else to keep in mind, if the motion starts prior to the QB getting under center, you will have an illegal shift too. I have a video posted on my site that illustrates this play.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by ljudge

Now say that same guy who legally goes in motion and stops for less than one second and the ball is snapped. It's NOT a foul for illegal shift. He's considered by interpretation to still be in motion. That was published about 5 years ago.

I disagree with you on the above statement. 2-39 "A shift is the action of one or more offensive players who, after a huddle or after taking set positions, move to a new set position before the ensuing snap."

From the case book.
7.2.6 Situation B: Backs A1 and A2 simultaneously move to new backfield positions prior to the snap. In less than one second after both are stationary: (a) A3 goes in motion and is in motion at the snap; or (b) the ball is snapped.
Ruling: Illegal shift in both (a) and (b). Following a huddle or a shift, all 11 players of A must come to a complete stop and must remain stationary simultaneously for at least one second before the snap or before a player goes in motion. (2-38)

7.2.7 Situation: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center. The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
Ruling: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In (d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap.
Comment: If the quarterback drops his hands under the snapper without stepping forward, it is a shift and not motion. (2-38; 7-2-6)

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ljudge

Now for the FED version of illegal shift. ALL players must be set for one full second before anyone goes in motion. If that happens and a man goes in motion, yes, he can stop and run in place. NO foul. Now say that same guy who legally goes in motion and stops for less than one second and the ball is snapped. It's NOT a foul for illegal shift. He's considered by interpretation to still be in motion. That was published about 5 years ago.

Good. It always seemed silly with the 1-player move that you could be flagged for stopping for between 0 & 1 sec, but not flagged outside those parameters, so you had them taking steps in place to comply.

However, can I take it that motion can be judged as forward as averaged over the previous 1 sec., so that a shifting back can't legally kill forward motion just by running in place for <1 sec.?

The one difference between Fed and NCAA is if everyone gets set for a second, then someone goes in motion and subsequently stops, then another player goes in motion less than a second later you have NO foul in NCAA but DO have a foul in Fed for an illegal shift.

Doesn't NCAA still have in its definition of shift "by a movement of both feet"?

Robert