You are correct, it is a LBP only cuz of the fumble. If the fumble had not occured, the foul would have occured during a running play and would be enforced from the EOR. You are also correct about NCAA being from the PS. I saw a similar play enforced wrong in a playoff game 4 years ago on a fumble by the QB about 12 yards behind the LOS after he was grabbed by the FM. Big difference in that penalty enforcement that crew made.

Congratulations are in order for MikeL. He is now a Varsity Crew Chief.

Just wait until he sees what games his assigner has for a rookie R :D

REPLY: Exactly! And I will guarantee that out on the field, probably nine out of ten officials will mess this one up and penalize from the end of the run. If so, in my play with the down and distance given, they be robbing the offense of a new series.

Given what we've discussed here, is it a true statement that from a rules perspective, in NF there is never a reason to beanbag a fumble (or anything for that matter) behind the NZ?

I would say the same goes for NCAA except for a fumble forward OOB, otherwise there would be no reason in NCAA either, correct?

We bag all fumbles cuz of habit and so everyone knows that you had a fumble on the play. No, it will not be used for penalty enforcement but it just an informational factor.

We've got several guys who believe in that philosophy as well. Personally, I'm not one of them but I certainly don't have an issue when guys do bag a fumble behind the NZ, as long as they get their enforcement right and ignore the bag if there's a penalty.

As far as mechanics go, I have much more of a problem when there's a fumble at the LOS and I'm working U and I see a beanbag come flying over my shoulder that was chucked by the BJ 15-20 yards behind me. That's definitely because he can, not because he should.

thanks again

Bean bags only need to be tossed or dropped to the "yardline" not thrown to the "spot." I've seen them thrown like that as well and it has cracked me up a time or two when I see someone do it on a game I am watching.

REPLY: This does present a bit of a dilemma of sorts. The primary reason for using the bean bag is that the spot might become an enforcement spot. And remember, it's the spot (not just the yardline) that we should enforce from. Therefore, dropping the bag (which I do agree with) will provide only one dimension for enforcement, i.e. the correct yardline. You'll need to rely on your memory to remember where sideline to sideline the foul occurred.

Great point Bob! This is something that a good U will always have in that photographic memory of theirs. Along with the visual of the king size Snickers bar! ;)

I'd hate to guess what percent of holding fouls are penalized from the correct yardline but from the previous location of the snap widthwise instead of where the foul occured. I'd bet most Umpires don't do it correctly. It's just not something I've ever heard emphasized. Maybe it's a local omission but I'd say most crews around here do it wrong.

REPLY: I don't think it's just a "local omission." If I were a betting man (I'm not), I would guess that most officials aren't even aware of this requirement.

Just further proof of the great need for more officials when the barrel gets scraped to that extent.
As for the assignments, just how much of a bribe are we talking about anyway?

Try this on with an IW.

A kicks the ball to B, B fumbles the ball on A's 10 and the ball rolls into the endzone then there is an IW. This may seem simple but it may trip you up.

Thank heavens you joined the forum just in time to save this 3 year old thread. :rolleyes:

I would hate to loose the thread its a wonderful referance for training new white hats.