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Which Order to Give Signals
I had the following play:
Fourth down. Player in position to punt. Ball goes over his head. He chases it down and immediately falls on it. B player comes in and jumps on him. Flag for late hit. Ball went to B on downs and B was penalized 15 yards for a dead ball personal foul. When it came time to signal I was unsure which was the correct order. Do you signal first down then dead ball personal then first down after setting chains? Or, just dead ball personal, set the chains and then first down? I imagine the fans in the stands would be wondering why you walk off 15 then give the ball to receiving team after the penalty. |
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If I remember correctly, this was in Referee Mag last year as a side note. I think you give the first down signal first, then the DB and the others afterwards.
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I did not read the referee article, and would submit that finding "facts" there or suggested "proper" procedures has been problematical in the past.
Do as you normally do. Signal DB (when appropriate), signal the foul, then tell everyone the down. Why would it be any different in this particular instance? Dead ball PF on B First down for B. And no, this would not be confusing to anyone - we've all seen fouls on B during a return or DB PF's on B after a return was over, and they are all signalled just like this one.
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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Here it is: G: when dead-ball fouls occur after fourth down: 1: Signal any live ball fouls 2: Signal first down 3: Signal dead ball 4: Signal the dead ball foul. If your have live ball fouls to deal with, why in the world are you then doing steps 2,3 and 4? In case you haven't been dealing with NFHS publications, they do have errors in them. In this case, this sequence is wrong as written. I have no problem if an official wants to do steps 3,4,2 or 2,3,4. Both are perfectly correct in my opinion, though I favor steps 3,4,2 because the normal handling of penalties is to signal the foul, mark off the penalty and them signal either the next down (or LOD) or signal first down. That makes more sense to me. Now, what's for lunch in the cafeteria? |
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Check out my football officials resource page at http://resources.refstripes.com If you have a file you would like me to add, email me and I will get it posted. |
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Why does Fed even bother to give a mechanic for something like this? Why not a general instruction to "present the facts in order of their occurrence and resolution", and let the official apply common sense? That is, recap in order. (They even do that in Rugby Union.)
If the first down is awarded last, it should be signaled last. If the first down is awarded and then penalty yardage applied after the line-to-gain is established, that's the order they should be signaled. A dead ball signal should be given in the order of occurrence of the dead ball, or first if the ball remained dead since the last administrative action. Can anyone describe a situation in which this common sense rule would give ambiguous results, or in which a specified mechanic would make things clearer than this general procedure? Robert |
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Second point - if the live-ball foul were on B, followed by a dead-ball foul on B, you would never have to worry about signaling the first down for B. Again, you're taking a very simple situation and making it very complicated. And the cafeteria is featuring, crow served specifically for you and MCrowder. |
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"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson |
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