Monday Night football

[Smiley]

If we can trust the box-man to correctly line up the ball in the middle of the field with the box, then why do we ever measure for a first down? Can't we trust the referee to correctly determine where the line to gain marker is in relation to the same ball?

We bring the chain out to determine if the line to gain is reached, why don't we bring it out to see if the ball is in front of or behind the tape? The same thing is at stake - a new series.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by Smiley

If we can trust the box-man to correctly line up the ball in the middle of the field with the box, then why do we ever measure for a first down? Can't we trust the referee to correctly determine where the line to gain marker is in relation to the same ball?

We bring the chain out to determine if the line to gain is reached, why don't we bring it out to see if the ball is in front of or behind the tape? The same thing is at stake - a new series.

Let see, the original spot of the last first down is really a guesstimate. The HL placing the chains for that first down is a guesstimate. Subsequent down spots and placement of the box to those spots are guesstimates. Why would we suddenly now need some assured placement? And just what are they going to measure against. Was the ball moved at all between the last down and the penalty call? Did the center make an allowed adjustment (I'll bet my last $$ yes), so where is the "spot" now? Sorry, but the bottom line is you take the box spot as your best available guesstimate and if it's 3 inches behind the tape at the 5 yd mark, then a 5 yd penalty leaves you 3 inches short. Move on and quit complaining about it, unless of course you're an idiot announcer who doesn't know jack about how to officiate.

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Let see, the original spot of the last first down is really a guesstimate. The HL placing the chains for that first down is a guesstimate. Subsequent down spots and placement of the box to those spots are guesstimates. Why would we suddenly now need some assured placement? And just what are they going to measure against. Was the ball moved at all between the last down and the penalty call? Did the center make an allowed adjustment (I'll bet my last $$ yes), so where is the "spot" now? Sorry, but the bottom line is you take the box spot as your best available guesstimate and if it's 3 inches behind the tape at the 5 yd mark, then a 5 yd penalty leaves you 3 inches short. Move on and quit complaining about it, unless of course you're an idiot announcer who doesn't know jack about how to officiate.

I'm not complaining, just trying to get some discussion going. I have never done it the way I have suggested, but have been considering for the last couple of years since I had a case where the box was behind the tape, but the five yard walk off ended up giving A the first down.

What happened was we had a five yard penalty against the home team. Visiting team had the ball. Box was behind the tape, so I knew it wasn't going to be a first down (or at least it shouldn't have been). I walked it off and while walking, it became apparent, the walk-off was going to put the ball beyond the line to gain. I shortened my steps and placed the ball down a little behind the last step to be sure it was behind the line to gain, but it still appeared to give A a first down, in fact the coach requested a measurement. R took a look and agreed. We measured and it was a first down. What I think happened is the home team boxman intentionally placed the box behind the tape, knowing the mechanic. Now, I know I screwed up by not taking a close look at where the ball was in relation to the nearest yard line (I think it was near the middle between two yard lines and there were no hash marks) and the linesman screwed up by not catching it, but it got me to thinking about actually measuring as opposed to using the box when it is close.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by Smiley

I'm not complaining, just trying to get some discussion going. I have never done it the way I have suggested, but have been considering for the last couple of years since I had a case where the box was behind the tape, but the five yard walk off ended up giving A the first down.

What happened was we had a five yard penalty against the home team. Visiting team had the ball. Box was behind the tape, so I knew it wasn't going to be a first down (or at least it shouldn't have been). I walked it off and while walking, it became apparent, the walk-off was going to put the ball beyond the line to gain. I shortened my steps and placed the ball down a little behind the last step to be sure it was behind the line to gain, but it still appeared to give A a first down, in fact the coach requested a measurement. R took a look and agreed. We measured and it was a first down. What I think happened is the home team boxman intentionally placed the box behind the tape, knowing the mechanic. Now, I know I screwed up by not taking a close look at where the ball was in relation to the nearest yard line (I think it was near the middle between two yard lines and there were no hash marks) and the linesman screwed up by not catching it, but it got me to thinking about actually measuring as opposed to using the box when it is close.

This is why you don't walk it off. Look at the spot where the ball is and go straight to the succeeding spot. Since you know that the ball will be 3 inches short, then guestimate the 3 inches and place the ball. I've seen officials try to walk off yardage and end up going either 4 yards or 7 yards for a 5 yard penalty.

[Smiley]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

This is why you don't walk it off. Look at the spot where the ball is and go straight to the succeeding spot. Since you know that the ball will be 3 inches short, then guestimate the 3 inches and place the ball. I've seen officials try to walk off yardage and end up going either 4 yards or 7 yards for a 5 yard penalty.

OK, I've thought about this some more. The difference between the line to gain and the box location is that once set, the box is the official spot for the ball's location, whereas when the ball is near the line to gain, the ball has just been spotted and is therefore the official location. What this means is there is no need to measure to see where the ball is in relation to the tape, since the box represents the official location of the ball. As someone pointed out, the center may have made an adjustment, or there may have been an incomplete pass before the 5 yard foul was committed. We would have placed the ball according to the box location. The time to measure if at all is when the box is initially placed near the tape. I am not advocating that this be done, but it does bring out the importance of making sure the box is correctly located when it is first placed near the tape, either in front of or behind.