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-   -   Crazy punting situation NFHS (https://forum.officiating.com/football/29012-crazy-punting-situation-nfhs.html)

FredFan7 Sat Oct 21, 2006 08:29pm

Crazy punting situation NFHS
 
Fourth down and 10 for K on their own 15 yard line. Punt formation. The snap sails over the punter's head. It's rolling on the ground at the 1 yard line, where he kicks it forward like a soccer player. The ball is picked up by K9 at the 10 yard line and run 90 yards for a TD with 1:00 remaining in the second quarter.

What's your call? NFHS? NCAA?

I'll tell you what we did later.

Theisey Sat Oct 21, 2006 08:55pm

Seems pretty straight forward, so I'm wondering what you guys did.

NCAA: team-B's ball 1/goal from the A-0.5 yard line. Penalty includes LOD.
NFHS: team-A's ball 4/24.5 from the A-0.5 yard line.

No TD in either case.

Peruvian Sat Oct 21, 2006 09:03pm

I'd agree because K can't advance any kick. (NFHS)

AndrewMcCarthy Sat Oct 21, 2006 09:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian
I'd agree because K can't advance any kick. (NFHS)

Rule reference please!

PSU213 Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian
I'd agree because K can't advance any kick. (NFHS)

That is not entirely true....K can advance a kick if they recover the ball behind the NZ. In this case, we would have no TD since K's kick was illegal and if R accepts the foul (which we will make sure they do), enforcement of the penalty negates the score.

SC Ump Sun Oct 22, 2006 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSU213
... since K's kick was illegal

Are you saying that in NFHS, K cannot kick a scrimmage kick that is on the ground? I don't understand what makes it an illegal kick.

JugglingReferee Sun Oct 22, 2006 07:52am

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FredFan7
Fourth down and 10 for K on their own 15 yard line. Punt formation. The snap sails over the punter's head. It's rolling on the ground at the 1 yard line, where he kicks it forward like a soccer player. The ball is picked up by K9 at the 10 yard line and run 90 yards for a TD with 1:00 remaining in the second quarter.

Offside pass subject to penalty.

Team B can decline and give K the TD, or accept and take B 1D/10 A-1. Clock on the snap.

The Roamin' Umpire Sun Oct 22, 2006 08:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Ump
Are you saying that in NFHS, K cannot kick a scrimmage kick that is on the ground? I don't understand what makes it an illegal kick.

There are only three types of legal scrimmage kick: place kick, drop kick, or punt. 2-23-9 says any other intentional kick is illegal.

And yes, K can advance this ball - as an illegal kick, it is treated as a fumble.

LineJudgeLou Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:00am

Good TD...
 
It's an illegal kick. Spot foul. 1/2 the distance. Replay 4th down. Can't kick the ball off the ground like in soccer.

If the punter had picked up the ball and punted it, and the punt stayed behind the neutral zone (blocked, tipped, whatever), K could have advanced and the TD would be good.

Jim D Mon Oct 23, 2006 08:20am

NFHS - This is an illegal kick by K. It does not meet the defention of aeither a punt, place kick or drop kick as defined in rule 2-23. We have an illegal kick which is treated as a fumble so flag the illegal kick, let the play go and then offer R the following choices - decline the penalty and it's a TD for A/K. Accept the penalty and it's 15 yards back from the spot of the foul and replay the down.

FredFan7 Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theisey
Seems pretty straight forward, so I'm wondering what you guys did.

NCAA: team-B's ball 1/goal from the A-0.5 yard line. Penalty includes LOD.
NFHS: team-A's ball 4/24.5 from the A-0.5 yard line.

No TD in either case.

NFHS, that's what we did, and clock starts on the snap because the play ended behind the goal line. We had to file that play under "There's one we don't see or talk about every day" so it caused us to slow down and talk it through.

mcrowder Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peruvian
I'd agree because K can't advance any kick. (NFHS)

Then you are agreeing for the wrong reason. Don't forget that on this play the "kick" ends behind the line of scrimmage. Can K advance a legal kick that ends behind the line of scrimmage?

No, the initial response was correct - and not for the reason you say.

Jim D Tue Oct 24, 2006 08:38am

The key on this play is to recognize that this is not a kick so none of the rules on restrictions apply. An illegal "kick" is really a FUMBLE so think of this play as a fumble by A.


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