Stop the clock?
 

In my game last Saturday night we had the following play:

Late in the second quarter (maybe 20 seconds left), A on B's 25 yard line. A has no time outs remaining. QB A8 is sacked on B's 31 yard line and the ball appears to come loose. The R eventually ruled that the QB was downed. A's coach immediately begins yelling "KICKING TEAM!!"

By this time there are under 10 seconds left in the half, R hurriedly gets the ball spotted and blows the ready. Due to the semi-confusion about the possible fumble, I (HL) was not in position on the line, and neither the BJ nor the LJ were in position under the goal posts. Somehow, A gets their kicking team on the field, in position, set and snapped in about five seconds to kick the field goal attempt. The ball sailed wide right, so we luckily averted an ugly situation.

In my opinion, the R should have waited until all officials were in position prior to blowing the ready, and consequently A would probably never have gotten the kick off as time would have expired for the half.

In our weekly meetings there was a huge discussion, and many of the veterans had different takes on it. While all agreed that the covering officials must be in place, a few of them said that the game clock should be stopped to allow the officials to get in proper position - I COMPLETELY disagree with that, and I think its just too bad if A doesn't have time.

Opinions?

How fast did he mark the ball ready in all the plays in the game prior to that. The same pace should be kept from start to finish. "Hurry Up" is something the teams do, not the officials. If it takes you 7 secs. to mark the ball ready for play on the first play in the first quarter, then it should take 7 secs. on the last play of the last quarter. My routine is the same. Once the ball is set, I look at each official and verify the down, then I mark it ready. If the R is rushing, he is assisting the offense in helping them get another play. We aren't there to help them get another play.

I agree with Jason, but to answer your other question ... no, R should not take EXTRA time solely to get an official under the uprights. It's our responsibility to get ready to officiate, even in bizarre circumstances like this. R should not hurry, but he should not delay either.

The umpire should be over the ball and the R should make sure the other officials are in position to officiate, this shouldn't take extra time but the R must allow time for his crew to get where they need to be. If the clock run out too bad, they should have saved a time out. There is no way I am going to make a ball RFP if the guys are not uner the goal to make the call.

mbcrowder,

If R would have used his normal cadence on that play (which he didn't - he went pretty fast), the covering officials would NOT have been in proper position. The overall question is, what to do? Allow the play to go off w/o proper coverage? ...or wait for proper coverage and possibly run out of time? ...or stop time in order to get proper coverage?

By the way, I know R is supposed to keep a steady cadence, BUT the RFP will most probably be blown a lot quicker following a 1 yard run on second down than following a 30-yard incomplete pass (with a scrimmage kick to follow) on third down. It will quite naturally take the covering officials a bit longer to get in position for the latter scenario.

If any official sees that they are rushing to get a kicking tee in or hear the coach calling for a field goal unit, then the officials should begin communicating and the covering officials should be moving into position. We always shout out, "we gotta tee, we gotta tee" along with using the "T" hand signal to the officials. Once they are in position, then the R can make it ready. If time runs out during the process then that's too bad. Not sure on the Fed rule, but the NCAA has a rule that allows the officials to stop the clock if there is undue delay by officials in placing the ball for the next snap. I don't believe this would apply here. This rule would apply when perhaps the ball goes out of bounds and the ball boy isn't around to get a new ball. At that time we'd stop the clock. Under NCAA it is also specific that the ball shall be declared ready for play consistently throughout the game. I'd be interested to know if the Fed has a rule like that.

"While all agreed that the covering officials must be in place, a few of them said that the game clock should be stopped to allow the officials to get in proper position..."

If you are following your normal timing between downs (which as JasonTX notes we should always be doing), and the ONLY reason you are not ready after both teams are in position to run play, is that officials are not in place, IMO we stop clock, get in position, and then give RFP w/wind.

Also, if we are in a situation (which I believe is described here) where for some number of seconds we are attempting to decide who actually has possession, then IMO the clock should be stopped until that decision is made. But, as stated previously, the key should be consistent timing on the RFP after each play throughout the game.

Roy,
there really wasn't much time elapsed because the R pretty much immediately signaled that the QB was down - I probably shouldn't have muddied up the scenario with that statement, but I guess I mentioned it because the BJ stated that that was one of the reasons why he was confused and didn't get under quickly enough.

But to clarify, in your opinion you think the game clock should be stopped? Do you not feel that A would be getting an unfair advantage?

Stop the clock? absolutely not.
This will give team-A an advantage they do not deserve.
In a 5-man game, there already should be an official near enough to the posts to cover a kick even alone if need be.
In a 4-man game, we would only have one official at the post and it's his job to know the situation and be on his horse about the time the last play ended.
Stop the Clock... NO.

The key here is really the consistency of the RFP timing between plays. If for whatever the reason, we need to delay the RFP from our "standard" timing, then we should charge the "extra time" as an official's timeout and not allow that "extended delay" between RFP's to allow the clock to run out. If the only reason that we're not in position to judge the FG is due to some confusion among the crew (as I believe we have described here), and we're going to exceed our normal "between plays" time then IMO official's timeout.

IMO we should not stop the clock in this situation, and we must wait for our fellow crewmates to get into proper position to officiate the FG. The rules allow them 3 TO per half and they may also spike the ball or throw an incomplete pass to stop the clock. The coach of the offensive team knew the risks of running an additional play in this situation and he gamble back fired. This is a coaching error and some of us think we should stop the clock to let them try a FG since we didn't get our official under the GP in 5 seconds...not in my game. Let’s not penalize the defensive team for sacking the QB and making a good play.

"Due to the semi-confusion about the possible fumble, I (HL) was not in position on the line, and neither the BJ nor the LJ were in position under the goal posts."

If we're keeping consistent timing between plays and as described in the original post the delay in getting the officials into their proper locations to cover a FG was due to "semi-confusion about the possible fumble" then IMO we should be calling an official's TO. If there was enough time for A & B to substitute and line up, then we should avoid the confusion, call a OTO, and move on.

Perhaps the best response to this thread. I agree.

A has the right to get the play off and, in this case, proved that they could, so stopping the clock would not give them an unfair advantage (I realize this is hindsight). To have the U stand over the ball and not have a RFP would be unfair to A.

Now the next question is, if A is likely to get the kick off, how bad do we want to be in position to rule on the kick? I'm not talking about if the guys should have been in position, it was evident to the R that they weren't and the kick is immanent.

Stopping the clock will give A a small advantage but it is the better option here to ensure proper coverage. It's the same priciple as stopping the clock to let players unpile or to retreive the ball.

The original post says they (HL and BJ) were not under the GP when the ball was kicked, call me crazy but during a FG it helps to have officials under the GP. What is the avg. time between plays? I thought I read some where that the BIG 10 was at anywhere from 12-16 seconds on avg.

I agree it helps to be in proper position - that's why I'd stop the clock until they got there. The "problem" in this play is not with A - they can get the play off (and did) nor with B. It's making sure the officials are ready. There are three choices - 1) let A kick with the crew out of position; 2) Don't let A kick (hold up RFP) or 3) Stop the clock, get in position and then let A go.

I don't like 1 because the crew could miss the call and I don't like 2 because it denies A a shot at a score that they can (and did) have. In this particular play, I think 3 is the best option.

PS - Even in a hurry up, we should work at a reasonable pace. We don't need to throw players off of a pile or fling the ball all over just to help A. But if, using our proper pacing, everyone else is ready but the BJ & LJ, then I think it's best to stop and let them get in position.

When the previous play was over, there were 10 seconds on a running clock left and team A was sending subs in and rushing to the line, right? Under NCAA there won't be enough time for A to snap the ball. By rule, Team B must be given enough time place its own subs into the game. By the time that is done and I have gone through my routine of making eye contact with each official, the time would have expired. While Team B is given the time they need to put in their subs, the BJ and LJ could be racing to the posts. Next time Team A will just spike the ball.

Under NCAA the U is required to stand over the ball until he is certain that B has had a resonable about of time to see the changes by A and react, nothing about stopping the clock, chances are in NCAA the play would never have gotten off.

I would challenge any high school team to rush their field goal unit on the field line up and kick the ball with only 10 seconds left without a motion penalty on the play or get the kick off without time expiring.

Great Point Ron

I don't think the question is if it could be done. According to the posted play it was done and without any procedural flags. The question asked was should the clock have been stopped since the only ones not ready were the officials. If both teams can sub and be in position for an attempted field goal, which they actually did according to the posted play, then we should be blowing the whistle and getting in position to correctly officiate the play and get the call right.

Were not giving anyone extra time, were making them wait for us to get into position, both teams are already in position and ready to snap.

I would like to see this game film of this play, I would bet a game check that they were not set on the kick. With all the confusion on the crew during the last 20 seconds there was probably a penalty out there that should have been called.

I was the HL I will admit that I didn't have time to accurately count players on the LOS, but other than that, there were no other procedural type penalties (illegal motion/illegal snap). It was truly amazing to see how fast the kicking team got on the field, got set, snapped, and kicked the ball. I wish I had the video to share, but I don't.

There still seems to be no consensus on what to do here, but I must admit I am hearing some very intriguing points on both sides. I originally felt that NO WAY should we stop the clock to let A get the kick off, but I guess I am now seeing it both ways (although, I still am leaning towards delaying the RFP until all officials are in position - which would make the game clock run out).

This question has been elevated to our State Director of Officials, so we shall see what he says...

I'm interested in all this talk about pace since I'm a WH and this is one of my most important jobs.

There's no way we use the same pace for every play. Most of the game, the pace is what I would describe as almost leisurely. The offense is huddling, we're getting the ball spotted, and I'm giving the RFP. I'm not in a hurry, but neither is anyone else.

At the end of the game during a hurry-up, I know I'm trying to get the ball spotted quickly and making sure we're not delaying the offense while not putting undue demands on the defense.

It's one of the things the NFL officials do extremely well. They get the ball spotted quickly for a spike/play.

In the NFL the play clock starts when the previous play becomes dead, so the NFL you must get the ball spotted because the play clock is already running. For NCAA and HS we decide when the clock starts. We aren't taking our sweet time but we definitley aren't going to speed things up just so they can get another play off. The key is to set your pace and it will vary, but if you create a routine then the teams have to adjust to you and know that is the same routine you'll follow. Depending on the play it may take longer to make it ready. My routine is, ball becomes dead, we relay the ball to the Ump and he spots the ball, I make eye contact with each official. I look at LJ, then at the U, then to the BJ and finish with HL, then I make the ball ready. I'd estimate it will take me about 4 secs. to look at all 4 officials. We keep the same speed we started with.

Jason, on MOST plays in NCAA and HS, the game clock is moving between plays just as you describe in the NFL, and just as it is in the OP. I would say the urgency to get the ball spotted at our level in a sitch like this is identical to the urgency to get the ball spotted in the NFL. I doubt the urgency has ANYTHING to do with the playclock, and EVERYTHING to do with the game clock.

I'm just saying that all the officials have pre-snap responsibilities and they happen before the ball is ready for play. If my officials aren't in position to officiate then the ball will not be made ready. If I'm speeding up, then essentially I am assisting Team A in getting a play. I will remain neutral to both teams. Team B just made a good play by forcing A into a situation that may run the clock out and that is a situation that Team B earned. By me rushing to get the ball up there so A can snap again has just taken away the play that Team B earned. Don't change or rush your pre-snap routine just to suit Team A.

How would you handle this situation? With Team A leading by 2 pts. team A runs a play to the A15 and is stopped short of the first down. Team B is out of timeouts. With the clock running and is at 30 seconds. Will you rush to spot the ball so that the RFP is given with more than 25 seconds so that A must snap the ball again or will you keep your normal pace and most likely A won't snap the ball again. If you rush then now you are assisting team B by forcing A to snap again.

You're changing the play. The OFFENSE decides how quickly they want to play. It's called a hurry-up OFFENSE for a reason.

All I know is that in my world, if the offense is set and ready and the WH takes 4 seconds to make eye contact with the crew with a running clock before signalling the RFP and lets the clock run out, there's gonna be hell to pay. And rightfully so, IMO.

On a first down with the clock stopped, I'll take a bit more time.

We've pretty much beat this one to a pulp. You guys may do things differently in Fed, but NCAA has a rule that is specific on this issue. If you've been keeping a good pace throughout the game and then all of a sudden the last play of the game you frantically rush because time is running out, then you didn't follow what the rules says below about being consistent.

Rule 3-4-2-a: The ball shall be declared ready for play consistently
throughout the game by the referee when the officials are in position.
Consuming more than 25 seconds to put the ball in play after it is
declared ready for play is an illegal delay.

Jason, this is a game management issue, NOT a rules issue. Frankly, I don't CARE what the rulebook says -- and this can't simply be dismissed as a NFHS/NCAA difference.

I've seen plenty of NCAA crews (working actual NCAA games) hustle like crazy at the end of games to get the ball spotted to be played or spiked.

Not hustling at the right time to get the ball RFP, where I've officiated, would be seen as a remarkable lack of understanding of the game.