Penalty enforcement

[BigFarns]

The play:

A ball Second down and 10 on the B30. Only six men on the line. Snap and an incomplete swing pass followed by a late hit. Kid said he thought the guy caught it...whatever. Anyhow, the ref says penalties offset. Illegal formation and late hit. Not sure about this one. I figured it'd be 5 yards in one direction then 15 in the other and it'd be first and 10 for A. Am I right in this?

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by BigFarns

The play:

A ball Second down and 10 on the B30. Only six men on the line. Snap and an incomplete swing pass followed by a late hit. Kid said he thought the guy caught it...whatever. Anyhow, the ref says penalties offset. Illegal formation and late hit. Not sure about this one. I figured it'd be 5 yards in one direction then 15 in the other and it'd be first and 10 for A. Am I right in this?

It is a live ball penalty and a dead ball penalty, you would have been right. Did you communicate this to your white hat?

[Two Call]

If he's anything like my white hat, it wouldn't have mattered. He thinks he knows it all and doesn't need to be told anything. But he's real good about pointing out the mistakes of others. He only has four other officials on the field because he has to. If he could, he'd be a 1-man show.

[ref49873]

You can't combine a live ball foul with a dead ball foul to get a double foul and offset the penalties.

You were right and should have marched off both penealties.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Two Call

If he's anything like my white hat, it wouldn't have mattered. He thinks he knows it all and doesn't need to be told anything. But he's real good about pointing out the mistakes of others. He only has four other officials on the field because he has to. If he could, he'd be a 1-man show.

The White Hat is only as good as his crew! We have a policy if you don't bring up a potential mistake on the field you better not bring it up after the game or at halftime. If you think we are making a mistake on a penalty or rules application take the time and come in and we can talk about it. If you’re right that is great, if you are wrong and stupid, we pick on you at dinner!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Two Call

If he's anything like my white hat, it wouldn't have mattered. He thinks he knows it all and doesn't need to be told anything. But he's real good about pointing out the mistakes of others. He only has four other officials on the field because he has to. If he could, he'd be a 1-man show.

Find a new crew. Your relationship with him is unhealthy for you both, and not healthy for the game. Surely if EVERYONE stops working with this guy, someone will get the point.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by RonRef

The White Hat is only as good as his crew! We have a policy if you don't bring up a potential mistake on the field you better not bring it up after the game or at halftime. If you think we are making a mistake on a penalty or rules application take the time and come in and we can talk about it. If you’re right that is great, if you are wrong and stupid, we pick on you at dinner!

Not always true. I was the umpire on a 4-man crew about 25 years ago at No. Hollywood HS (CA), and the HL and FJ, along with myself, had white hat experience. The referee was one of the types mentioned in the original post. When we tried to correct him on a penalty enforcement, he would tell us that he was in charge and knew what he was doing. By the end of the first quarter, the three of us would report a penalty, "Holding, 72 red", and go back to our positions. It was one of the most distasteful games I ever worked.

Another time, I was the umpire on a 4-man crew at Hollywood HS (CA). After the first snap from scrimmage, the ref tells me, "You know, the center can't put his hands over the front of the ball. It's your call, so I didn't throw my flag". At that point, I knew I was in for a LLLOOONNNGGG afternoon.

Some of the guys haven't read a rule book for years.

Bob

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Not always true. I was the umpire on a 4-man crew about 25 years ago at No. Hollywood HS (CA), and the HL and FJ, along with myself, had white hat experience. The referee was one of the types mentioned in the original post. When we tried to correct him on a penalty enforcement, he would tell us that he was in charge and knew what he was doing. By the end of the first quarter, the three of us would report a penalty, "Holding, 72 red", and go back to our positions. It was one of the most distasteful games I ever worked.

Another time, I was the umpire on a 4-man crew at Hollywood HS (CA). After the first snap from scrimmage, the ref tells me, "You know, the center can't put his hands over the front of the ball. It's your call, so I didn't throw my flag". At that point, I knew I was in for a LLLOOONNNGGG afternoon.

Some of the guys haven't read a rule book for years.

Bob

To be a good member of a crew in any sport we need to put our egos aside and work as a team. We need to put the game, players, and fellow crewmates above ourselves. We need to ask ourselves did we get the play right...that's it? There is no shame in picking up a flag that another official had a better angle if it is in the best interest of the game.