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lds7199 Thu Sep 07, 2006 09:54am

Snap
 
Can the center turn the football completely sidways when he adjusts the ball for the snap. I was sure that this was not legal, but two veteran officials told me that as longs as the center did not pick the ball up, it was legal. So, I read them 7-1-2 which says:

"The snapper may lif the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end for end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right angles to the line of scrimmage"

Am I misinterpreting this phrase? Because even after I quoted this rule, both officials still said it was legal to turn the ball sideways.

RonRef Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lds7199
Can the center turn the football completely sidways when he adjusts the ball for the snap. I was sure that this was not legal, but two veteran officials told me that as longs as the center did not pick the ball up, it was legal. So, I read them 7-1-2 which says:

"The snapper may lif the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end for end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right angles to the line of scrimmage"

Am I misinterpreting this phrase? Because even after I quoted this rule, both officials still said it was legal to turn the ball sideways.

If he is just adjusting it why are we digger for an infraction here. Let' not be looking for something to call!

lds7199 Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonRef
If he is just adjusting it why are we digger for an infraction here. Let' not be looking for something to call!

He is not merely adjusting it, he is turning the ball completely sideways. Does the neutral zone turn sideways with it? The forward point of the ball has changes also. I mean I have seen this done in little league before, but in 9th grade? I never threw a flag on this. I just told the center not to do it.

mcrowder Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lds7199
Can the center turn the football completely sidways when he adjusts the ball for the snap. I was sure that this was not legal, but two veteran officials told me that as longs as the center did not pick the ball up, it was legal. So, I read them 7-1-2 which says:

"The snapper may lif the ball for lateral rotation but may not rotate end for end or change the location or fail to keep the long axis of the ball at right angles to the line of scrimmage"

Am I misinterpreting this phrase? Because even after I quoted this rule, both officials still said it was legal to turn the ball sideways.

You have found something that is TECHNICALLY against the rules, but never called. The rule should probably be amended to allow this, since it's prevalent all over that this gets ignored. For your partners to tell you this was LEGAL was not quite correct - they probably should have just told you that this is not a booger worth hunting for.

mcrowder Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lds7199
He is not merely adjusting it, he is turning the ball completely sideways. Does the neutral zone turn sideways with it? The forward point of the ball has changes also. I mean I have seen this done in little league before, but in 9th grade? I never threw a flag on this. I just told the center not to do it.

No, the NZ is the NZ. Again, it isn't worth bothering with - it's not going to draw the defense offside, it gains no material advantage, and the lack of a call is expected by the other team's coach. Don't bother with this one.

lds7199 Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder
No, the NZ is the NZ. Again, it isn't worth bothering with - it's not going to draw the defense offside, it gains no material advantage, and the lack of a call is expected by the other team's coach. Don't bother with this one.

OK! I can live with that.

FootballRef05 Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:46am

What are you going to do if he rotates the ball end of end?

RonRef Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballRef05
What are you going to do if he rotates the ball end of end?


He can't pick it up, he did state is was 9th grade, I hope we can be educational and use a little preventive officiating here.

mcrowder Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballRef05
What are you going to do if he rotates the ball end of end?

At any age - "Don't do that". Probably at least twice before I flag this. Probably even twice, followed by a word sent to the coach to tell the kid to cut it out, before I flag this.

Don't pick nits. Officiate the game, don't over-officiate the game. Rule WITH the book. And 10 other cliches that say the same thing.

RonRef Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcrowder
At any age - "Don't do that". Probably at least twice before I flag this. Probably even twice, followed by a word sent to the coach to tell the kid to cut it out, before I flag this.

Don't pick nits. Officiate the game, don't over-officiate the game. Rule WITH the book. And 10 other cliches that say the same thing.

Mcrowder has it right, we need to manage the game, not be part of it.

MJT Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:57pm

In an NFL training video they showed the center on a goal line play move the ball over a foot forward. The defense was now well in the NZ, however so was the offense. The supervisor said to "not call any foul on the play, especially not on the defense."

FootballRef05 Fri Sep 08, 2006 08:01am

Certainly we all understand preventive officiating however in the 10 years I have been doing this I have always been intrigued with how we interpert the rules and which ones we feel are nit picky and are allowed to be let go for a certain amount of time, and how each official has a different level of tolerance for this.

In this situation what the center is doing is clearly illegal, however the respinses have varied from talking to him, letting him do it several time before tossing a flag to no harm no foul. I guess this is part of what I love about officiating.

I would love to know how all of you would handle a D linemen with his hand in the NZ?

RonRef Fri Sep 08, 2006 09:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FootballRef05
Certainly we all understand preventive officiating however in the 10 years I have been doing this I have always been intrigued with how we interpert the rules and which ones we feel are nit picky and are allowed to be let go for a certain amount of time, and how each official has a different level of tolerance for this.

In this situation what the center is doing is clearly illegal, however the respinses have varied from talking to him, letting him do it several time before tossing a flag to no harm no foul. I guess this is part of what I love about officiating.

I would love to know how all of you would handle a D linemen with his hand in the NZ?

I would handle this way, if I am the wing official I would talk to my umpire and have him move the D player back. If the D player's team is on my side I would talk to the coach.

FootballRef05 Fri Sep 08, 2006 09:12am

When do you throw the flag? Off coach is in your ear, looking right down the NZ with you.

Jim D Fri Sep 08, 2006 09:30am

I hope having the coach yelling in your ear should not be a factor on whether to call this. I would tell the coach something like "I'll deal with it" and then talk to the player or to the Umpire. Most coaches understand because, even though they'd like the free 5 yards, it may be their kid next play. Think of all the times on a punt when offensive linemen point to the players that they will block and actually cross the neutral zone with their arms when they point. Nobody is going to call that infraction.

I wouldn't let it go on all game and, if the kid won't respond to our suggestions, then I'd start flagging him but I would work to fix the problem first.


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