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BigJWalt Mon Jun 05, 2006 07:07am
Weekly Question
 
What answers do you guys have for the following question?

K has the ball and is faced with a fourth down and five on their own 20 yard line. Punter K12 drops the low snap and in the ensuing scramble tosses the ball underhanded toward the line of scrimmage to a blocking back, K56, who is standing at the K 15 yard line. K56 catches the ball and advances it to the K 41 for an apparent first down. K76 and K63 were down field at the 30 yard line at the time of the pass.

Do we have a foul on K56 for catching a pass?

DrMooreReferee Mon Jun 05, 2006 07:55am
I think we have a foul against K56 for illegal touching. Thats the only foul I have on this play. The linemen downfield are fine, since the pass didn't cross the neutral zone. Back to K56, he's eligible by position, but his number is what gets him into trouble. The numbering exception for scrimmage kick formations doesn't get him out of this. The numbering exception is designed to allow K to have all sorts of different numbers on the line. A normal scrimmage down would require them to have 5 guys numbered 50-79 on the line. I assume they were in a scrimmage kick formation here.

So, anyway, illegal touching against K. Enforcment spot is the 15. 5 yard penalty back to the 10. Loss of down. B/R's ball at A/K's 10. ist and 10.

grantsrc Mon Jun 05, 2006 08:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee
I think we have a foul against K56 for illegal touching. Thats the only foul I have on this play. The linemen downfield are fine, since the pass didn't cross the neutral zone. Back to K56, he's eligible by position, but his number is what gets him into trouble. The numbering exception for scrimmage kick formations doesn't get him out of this. The numbering exception is designed to allow K to have all sorts of different numbers on the line. A normal scrimmage down would require them to have 5 guys numbered 50-79 on the line. I assume they were in a scrimmage kick formation here.

So, anyway, illegal touching against K. Enforcment spot is the 15. 5 yard penalty back to the 10. Loss of down. B/R's ball at A/K's 10. ist and 10.
That sounds right.

BigJWalt Mon Jun 05, 2006 08:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee
I think we have a foul against K56 for illegal touching. Thats the only foul I have on this play. The linemen downfield are fine, since the pass didn't cross the neutral zone. Back to K56, he's eligible by position, but his number is what gets him into trouble. The numbering exception for scrimmage kick formations doesn't get him out of this. The numbering exception is designed to allow K to have all sorts of different numbers on the line. A normal scrimmage down would require them to have 5 guys numbered 50-79 on the line. I assume they were in a scrimmage kick formation here.

So, anyway, illegal touching against K. Enforcment spot is the 15. 5 yard penalty back to the 10. Loss of down. B/R's ball at A/K's 10. ist and 10.
I was thinking on those terms at first because this is a new rule this year. What threw me off was the fact that the question specifies K56 is a back. I should have went with my gut, thanks for the explanation.

grantsrc Mon Jun 05, 2006 09:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJWalt
I was thinking on those terms at first because this is a new rule this year. What threw me off was the fact that the question specifies K56 is a back. I should have went with my gut, thanks for the explanation.
Remember, in HS, only players with eligible numbers can catch a pass, regardless of the down.

ljudge Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:37am
You also could have illegal forward pass if no one with an eligible number is close to #56. The difference is the penalty yardage enforced from the end of the run by the QB (spot of pass). I would probably rule illegal touching but IF absolutely no one with an eligible number is in the vicinity of #56 then IFP is a possibility.

DrMooreReferee Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:59pm
Excellent point LJudge.

So, if the official rules that nobody with an eligible number was close by, do we then have a multiple foul?

Bob M. Mon Jun 05, 2006 02:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee
Excellent point LJudge.

So, if the official rules that nobody with an eligible number was close by, do we then have a multiple foul?
REPLY This is a great question that I really don't think the Fed has addressed completely. Personally, I'd say "no," you don't have a multiple foul. If you have no eligible in the area, then the pass is indeed illegal. But...since Federation rules say that eligibility only applies to legal forward passes (7-5-6), illegal touching is moot based upon the wording of the illegal touching rule. One might argue that this is a chicken-and-egg argument, and they'd be right!

Jim D Mon Jun 05, 2006 02:29pm
Bob M,

So you would penalize from the spot of the pass for an illegal pass instead of from the 15 for illegal touching?


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