Help with a play

[AZ Line Judge]

Had an interesting play occur in a "Semi-pro" game I worked yesterday. They use mainly NFHS rules with a few alterations which wouldn't affect this play. We had two different Varsity White Hats that disagreed on the results of this play.

A's ball 2 and Goal on B's 8 yard line. A1 hands off to A2 who fumbles at the 3 yard line. The ball goes into the endzone and comes to a rest about 9 yards deep in the endzone. Player B1 picks up the ball, hesitates for a second and then steps across the endline.

What is the ruling, touchback or safety?

I look forward to the discussion on this!

Chad

[The Roamin' Umpire]

All that matters when deciding touchback or safety is the reason the ball crossed the goal line in the first place. A forced the ball into B's endzone, therefore this is a touchback. (Just as if the B player fell on the ball, or if he was tackled, or if he went to one knee on his own.)

The rule reference is NFHS 8-5-3c.

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

All that matters when deciding touchback or safety is the reason the ball crossed the goal line in the first place. A forced the ball into B's endzone, therefore this is a touchback. (Just as if the B player fell on the ball, or if he was tackled, or if he went to one knee on his own.)

The rule reference is NFHS 8-5-3c.

I have to agree with Roamin' Umpire on this one. TB....

[Forksref]

Did B carry the ball into the EZ? If not, then no safety. A caused it to go in. I am surprised a white hat would not know that!

[spits]

What if B picked up the ball and ran around the EZ, breaking tackles, and finally being tacked in the EZ.
Would it then become a safety because he is obviously trying to advance, or is it always a TB when downed in the EZ?

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by spits

What if B picked up the ball and ran around the EZ, breaking tackles, and finally being tacked in the EZ.
Would it then become a safety because he is obviously trying to advance, or is it always a TB when downed in the EZ?

REPLY: No, it's not a safety...the overarching factor for determining TB or safety is not what's done with the ball by B after he gets possession in the endzone. It's how the ball got into the endzone in the first place. As the others have said--and even for your case--the result is a touchback.

[ljudge]

I seem to recall there's a case book play that's somewhat close to the revised version here. I believe it's something like B intercepts the ball in his own endzone and decides to lateral the ball to a teammate (backward pass) and the ball is never caught and simply goes over the endline where it falls dead. Whether I recall it correctly or not, it's the same result if the ball was subsequently passed backward by B. Touchback.

[grantsrc]

Originally Posted by spits

What if B picked up the ball and ran around the EZ, breaking tackles, and finally being tacked in the EZ.
Would it then become a safety because he is obviously trying to advance, or is it always a TB when downed in the EZ?

No, still a touchback. How did the ball get into the EZ first?

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by ljudge

I seem to recall there's a case book play that's somewhat close to the revised version here. I believe it's something like B intercepts the ball in his own endzone and decides to lateral the ball to a teammate (backward pass) and the ball is never caught and simply goes over the endline where it falls dead. Whether I recall it correctly or not, it's the same result if the ball was subsequently passed backward by B. Touchback.

If we had a forward (illegal) pass in the EZ, then we'd have a safety because we'd have a foul by the offense (team with the ball) in the EZ.

[AZ Line Judge]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

All that matters when deciding touchback or safety is the reason the ball crossed the goal line in the first place. A forced the ball into B's endzone, therefore this is a touchback. (Just as if the B player fell on the ball, or if he was tackled, or if he went to one knee on his own.)

The rule reference is NFHS 8-5-3c.

That was the consesus of most of us, the one White Hat still argued that because B stepped out of the back of the endzone it was a safety.


My understanding and he couldn't understand this, is that if force by A puts the ball in the endzone, there won't be a safety on B unless a penalty occurs in the endzone.

Thanks for the help guys.

[mcrowder]

That white hat needs to change hats. This one is really very basic.

[Niner]

Originally Posted by AZ Line Judge

My understanding and he couldn't understand this, is that if force by A puts the ball in the endzone, there won't be a safety on B unless a penalty occurs in the endzone.

There is a scenerio in this situation where a foul by B in his end zone during the loose ball would end up being enforce from the spot of the fumble and a replay of the down by A.