Power Right

[ccbestul]

Team A lines up with a wide out to the right with a slot back just to his left. The two remaining backs go in motion and set up on each side of the slot back. After they are set, the original slot back (who is in a crouched position.) misses the count and moves forward with one step and then stands still for one count. Nobody is drawn offside by this move nor is it overly dramatic. Three of the receivers run ten yards out while the slot back takes two steps and receives the pass from the quarter back. Slot back runs 60 yards for a touchdown. Three of us (5-man crew) saw the move and we all detemined it was a non-call. Any disagreement?

[Zeke5]

Nope, sounds fine to me ... UNLESS the forward movement was
abrupt as to simulate the start of the play (even if B did
not jump),and his new position did not place him on the
line of scrimmage (which would make him ineligible in the
alignment you previously described since he would be
covered by the split end).

[Middleman]

Originally posted by ccbestul
Team A lines up ... After they are set, the original slot back (who is in a crouched position.)...

******misses the count*****

...and moves forward with one step...

...and then stands still for one count. Nobody is drawn offside by this move nor is it overly dramatic.


Three of us (5-man crew) saw the move and we all detemined it was a non-call. Any disagreement?

I'll disagree (I'm assuming Fed rules)- it sounds like a false start to me, and the REFEREE, or perhaps the wing man on that side, should have flagged it. The fact that noone was drawn offside has no bearing on the foul.

Having said that, three of you judged it to be nothing, so that's what it was. Personally, I'm a stickler and the key to my interpretation here is that "misses the count" statement. Sounds like the slotback thought he should start, so he did.

If you all judged that it was nothing more than a shift (because he reset and remained motionless for a second) I can't argue against that as a judgement call. But my guess is that the three of you who DID see it, all questioned the no call in your own minds and then got together to discuss it later - leading me to believe it was more than just a shift. Otherwise it would have passed as just another play.

That's my two-cents worth. I wasn't there, but I want to make the point that a false start is a false start, even when the defense is not drawn off.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Middleman

I'll disagree (I'm assuming Fed rules)- it sounds like a false start to me, and the REFEREE, or perhaps the wing man on that side, should have flagged it. The fact that noone was drawn offside has no bearing on the foul.

I agree with you, Middleman. In my area, we consistently call this a false start, so there's no question as to wether it's a penalty or not. Chances are that if he misses the count, he's going to simulate action at the snap.

[ccbestul]

Interesting responses. Simulating a false start is a very gray area when dealing with the backfield. Change the situation. Backfield is in a T formation, QB audibles and right HB (for whatever reason) needs to be one step closer to the line, realizes it and quickly takes one step and resets. By BktBalRef's interpretation, this is a false start. Where do we draw the line? I do think that the response by the defense is important. After all, the defense can help determine if it was a simulated false start or legal shift.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ccbestul
Interesting responses. Simulating a false start is a very gray area when dealing with the backfield. Change the situation. Backfield is in a T formation, QB audibles and right HB (for whatever reason) needs to be one step closer to the line, realizes it and quickly takes one step and resets. By BktBalRef's interpretation, this is a false start. Where do we draw the line? I do think that the response by the defense is important. After all, the defense can help determine if it was a simulated false start or legal shift.

Here's the problem though...

Defensive coach - "Hey, that was a false start!"

Line Judge - "Sorry coach, but the defense didn't react to it."

Defensive coach - "Captain Joe, the next time he does that, you guys bust across that line!"

And I'm not be facetious, I've seen it happen. If he qucikly takes a step, as you say, we consider him to be simulating action at the snap.

[Zeke5]

What's the difference if the slot took a step forward and
motioned in towards the QB?

Most coaches teach the backs (& flankers) to start to slide
a direction parallel to the LOS if they mess up the snap
count, and this is perfectly legal (assuming everyone was
set, no one else was in motion, and the step forward was not
too abrupt)

There is only one question to ask: Did the motion towards
the line simulate the start of a play? Because an official
or a B player felt the A player forgot the snap count, is
not, in itself, a reason to shut the play down.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Zeke5

There is only one question to ask: Did the motion towards
the line simulate the start of a play? Because an official
or a B player felt the A player forgot the snap count, is
not, in itself, a reason to shut the play down.

No it's not. But more times than not, when this happens the moving player does move in a fashion that simulates the snap. Hell, he thought the ball was going to be snapped.

[Zeke5]

I agree with you BktBallRef in that when this situation
arises it has a high probability of being a false start.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Zeke5
I agree with you BktBallRef in that when this situation
arises it has a high probability of being a false start.

Which is why, to be consistent, we always flag it.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I agree with you, Middleman. In my area, we consistently call this a false start, so there's no question as to wether it's a penalty or not. Chances are that if he misses the count, he's going to simulate action at the snap.

I agree. If the movement occurs on the "hut", I will most likely flag it!