Are the Linesmen and LJ's suppose to drop the bean bag to get the ball or do they stand still and have the Umpire get it on sweeps outside of the inbound lines?

I’m not real sure what you’re asking here. When working the wing, the only time I drop my bag to retrieve the ball is when I need to mark the spot where the runner went out of bounds or the ball left the field on a fumble or kick. As far as the Umpire retrieving the ball outside the hash, that usually depends on who I’m working with. There’s some WH’s I work with who like the old school way where the U never goes outside the hash. Then there’s the newer type who want you to be more mobile. I like the more mobile type myself. It shows more hustle and keeps the game moving along. As far as working collage ball goes, it’ll be down-gradesvill big time to the Ump who stays inside the hash

When I'm working the U I go where I think I need to, to heck with what the WH wants! :"D

REPLY: As opposed to "getting the ball," the primary reason for the wing to leave the sideline and move into the team areas would be to 'protect' the opponent. When an official is in the area, it's less likely that bad things will happen. Dropping the bean bag and going in is one means of doing that. When the line to gain is threatened by the runner's progress, it would be advantageous for the wing to hold his progress spot, face the opponents in the team area, and rely on either the R or the B to assist in cleaning up. Some may disagree with this but it's one way to manage this situation. If solely for the purpose of retrieving the ball, wait till things calm down and players begin to return to their huddles. Then worry about the ball.

You have to assume that if you drop your bean bag to go retreive a ball that the bean bag will be be moved/kicked. It's more important getting the correct dead ball spot or saving ten seconds in retreiving the ball. Let the Referee or Back Judge help in getting the ball or wait until someone else gets your spot before you leave it.

I understand why you are asking about wings dropping the bag. I get to the spot and hold it, the BJ or WH will take care of the ball if it is away from me. Now, JV games, grade school games, I will do this because we do not have a 5 man crew, sometimes only 3.

Using the bean bag to save a spot should be used seldom, if ever. Yes, even in three man games. What can happen is the R coming to help out, or the U can come in behind you from the center of the field, take your spot, thus freeing you to get the ball. I don't mean coming all the way over, but to he hash. Once he has it, simply say, "I've got your spot" or "Go ahead, (name), I have your spot." Or, simply ask assistance from the sideline or ball carrier.

The ball is always such a priority for many officials, when they neglect much of their other dead ball responsibilities. Slow down, take your time, and worry about the ball last. I tell myself that on almost every play.

Bean bag, uses:
momentum, fumble, out of bounds, and PSK
If my linesman or line-judge need to vacate their area, it's my responsibility as the back judge to cover their spot

Thanks for all the input; we are trying to get one standard for the Association following the mechanics book as close as we can. There are a grey areas. Does anyone's Association have a good plan we can follow?

Booker,

Why would you use a bean bag for out of bounds?

Jim. On my crew, when the player or the ball travels outside the lines and if the official covering the play must leave the field of play, they will drop the bag at the spot where the ball/player left the field, giving the trailing official the spot, while he/she follows the player and/or retrieves a ball. Being the back judge, I'm usually trailing the play.

As mentioned in the discussion above, we do not drop our bean bag at the sideline. The covering official, HL or LJ, will follow the runner to the sideline and stop there and hold the spot. The HL/LJ will continue to face the runner and cover the play. Since 99% of the out of bounds plays end up within a yard or two of the sideline, we get both an accurate spot and good coverage. The BJ will go to the ball to help cover the runner and to retreive the ball while the wing observes action from the sideline to the runner. The U covers the action inbounds.

Booker, what level is this? I assume HS. Also, where do you work?
The reason I ask is that this mechanic is 180 degrees opposite of what the Fed recommends. Also, the publication from Referee Mag suggests something different too.

The way that most of us do it (I assume) is that if a play continues out of bounds, the covering officials turns his back to the play while staying at the spot. At this point in time, he trail officials, usually the BJ but sometimes the R comes over and cleans the sidelines. That way, the bean bad won't get kicked or moved in all the commotion.

Watch a college or NFL game. The LJ or HL will stay at the spot, will the SJ or FJ, and if it is the QB the R, will come in and personally escort the opposite team's player back into the field of play.

REPLY: We do the same thing as Jim describes here. It's perfectly feasible inside either 25 since the covering wing can easily watch what happens OOB. But if a runner is run out of bounds into either team box, and disappears into a bunch of team members, we do have the closest official (might be the wing) head into "no-man's land" to ensure the safety of all participants. If it's the wing, he drops the bag. Other officials (R and/or B) rushing to the spot key on the bag to ensure it doesn't get misplaced. If the R or B are nearby at the time and can get into the sideline mix, they let the wing know, "I got it" so that the wing can remain at the dead ball spot.

We use five men crews for varsity where I am an official. I am aware of what the federation wants, but with my crew of geezers, it works better. This doesn't happen on every play. but those where the side offical is forced by circumstance across the sidelines. My favorite offical, God bless his soul, with more than thirty years of experience and countless play off games, while working the wings would simply hold up the number of fingers corresponding with his receivers. Simple, but effective. I am still (hope) quick enough and experienced enough to move where I need to be to cover.

We use five men crews for varsity where I am an official. I am aware of what the federation wants, but with my crew of geezers, it works better. This doesn't happen on every play. but those where the side offical is forced by circumstance across the sidelines. My favorite offical, God bless his soul, with more than thirty years of experience and countless play off games, while working the wings would simply hold up the number of fingers corresponding with his receivers. Simple, but effective. I am still (hope) quick enough and experienced enough to move where I need to be to cover.

Our 5-man has a different reasoning behind the OOB Bag: You are moving up the sideline and the player steps out. NOT AS A DEFINATE, but as an assistance, we bag the spot so that we keep our head up and watch the afterplay activity. This keeps our attention off the ground and at player level. As for retreiving the ball, if it goes out past the team, either the ball boy goes for it (he's excellent at that, we bring our own) or the BJ swoops in and cleans up. This keeps the wings on task for the proper spot.

A4caster - OK, your the HL. The runner sweeps around end and is pushed out of bounds near the line to gain. Are you using the bag or your foot to mark the spot? My point is that if you use the bag, it can be kicked or moved by players. If you use your foot, then throwing the bag gives you two spots and a possible argument with the coach. There is no reason to throw a bag here and it just can cause problems. Mark the out of bounds spot with your foot, continue to officiate and let the BJ or ball boy retreive the ball.

As a white hat, I follow the ball and will retrieve it while the wing keeps the spot. On long passes, I am not in that area because I am back protecting the QB. Your R should get the ball on most of the plays outside the hash.

What is your BJ doing? Ours is getting the ball, or part of the triangle on almost all plays outside the hash, and especially if it close to the sideline or OOB's. We drop a bag and go IF the players go OOB's and the BJ is not there to get in the mix yet. We will escort the "nonbench" team members out of the bench area to ensure their safety.

Here in MO, they don't want the R touching the ball at all. I think they feel that he has enough to worry about. They want the back judge coming in to help out.

In my opinion, most back judges don't move enough. Some barely even think about coming towards the LOS. Not all mind you, some.

At times though, I feel that the R can triangle the ball in easier that the BJ because he will theoretically have fewer players in his way.

Our BJ is part of the triangle, relaying the ball to the U. On passes, the BJ is more likely to retrieve the ball. We've had 4 guys touch the ball after some plays, depending on the play. I don't like letting the ball sit there waiting for someone else to pick it up while I am close to it. I like to be active. As long as I am following the ball, I might as well help relay the ball. On most sideline plays, I am not retreiving, but relaying the ball to the U. This is more than theory. :)

Why have the BJ chase the ball on incomplete passes? Have the LJ (or HL depending on your area's preference- we run both ball boys off the same sideline, home sideline) get a new ball in to the U. If it is incomplete, the Bj can get the old ball, relay it to the sidelines, all while the ball is getting ready.

We exchange balls only on change of possession. So we are always getting the ball back to the previous spot or new spot at the hash. If the ball is in the middle of the field, the BJ is more likely to get it since he is closer to the play. On complete passes or long runs, the BJ is involved in retreiving the ball.

Why? (I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything here. I'm just trying to figure out your thought process)

If you have a long incomplete pass, why not have the LJ or HL get a new ball from the team in possession, relay it in to the umpire, mark it at the previous spot, and get the game going again. All the while, the BJ is tracking down the ball or someone on the sidelines for that matter. Send a ball boy to get it. We are not getting a ball from the other team, we are simply using another ball from the offense.

What about a play dead in the sidezone? Since both ball boys are on my side of the field, if I have a play dead in my sidezone, I spot the ball at my feet, and get a new ball in, kind of like the NFL or NCAA.

Now, if you have an incomplete pass and it falls at the feet of an official then we usually use that ball. But otherwise, if I am understanding your system, it sounds like your BJ is doing a heck of a lot of extra running and losing time while doing it.