Unofficially...


Here's your Super Bowl XL Crew:

R- Bill Leavy #127
2nd Super Bowl

U- Garth DeFelice #53
1st Super Bowl

HL- Mark Hittner #28
3rd Super Bowl

LJ- Mark Perlman #9
1st Super Bowl

FJ- Steve Zimmer #33
1st Super Bowl

SJ- Tom Hill #97
1st Super Bowl

BJ- Bob Waggoner #25
1st Super Bowl

Alternates:

R- Tony Corrente #99
U- Undrey Wash #96
HL- Tom Stabile #24

Noooooooooo way. I'd be severely suprised if Leavy is the WH. My bet is now on Mike Carey.

I've been saying Carey as well. My money is on him

Last night Pereira said the announcement will be next Wednesday on Officials Review on NFL Total access. Should be interesting to see if all the crew rumors are true.

I mentioned Carey a month or so ago when someone posted a thread on predictions for who we think would work the game. In reply to my post I thought that someone said he hadn't ever worked a NFC or AFC championship game which is a requirement. When did he work in either of those games?

Has Austin worked a playoff game yet this year? I'm thinking it could be him at this point.

I don't believe Austin had a playoff game this year. The Super Bowl crew usually comes from the 1st or 2nd round. IMO Carey is the better for the job than Leavy.

I could have sworn I looked it up and Mike Carey worked the Tampa Championship game when they won the NFC....I could be wrong though. As long as Tom White isn't in Detroit, we should be in OK shape. Does anyone else think Larry Nemmers is a possibility as well?

Carey has not worked a CC before, but I do believe that this stipulation is no longer required.

My source tells me that it is not Carey, and is in fact Leavy.

Austin was shut out this year. He didn't look like he wa thrilled to be out there, some days.

Nemmers I think should get the nod some year, but it is not this year.

Tom White you might see move to LJ next year to make room for 2 new WHs. Anyone care to guess who? :D

REPLY: JugglingReferee's post is 100% correct. And I'm thrilled for Tommy Hill. He's a member of our local association. He and I joined about the same time. Obviously, he had more initiative and more 'on the ball' than I did. :) When I began, I started off on his father's crew. I'm proud of Tommy and happy for his success.

I'm a little surprised there are 5 guys making their first SB appearance. Intuitively, I would lean toward assigning no more than 3.

Congratulations to Bob Waggoner from the Toledo area!

Which one? :D :D :D

REPLY: The one that said that Bob M. is a great guy and a fabulous official.

What do you mean there was no such post?? ;)

I'll say that you're a great guy Bob. As for officiating, can't say that I've seen you work but from what I gather from your posts and whatnot, hard to imagine it not being true!

Austin wasn't totally shut out this year......He's making the trip to Hawaii the following week.

Pro Bowl
 

R- Gerry Austin
U- Steve Wilson
HL- John Schleyer
LJ- Carl Johnson
FJ- Scott Steenson
SJ- Laird Hayes
BJ- Phil Luckett
Alt- Mike Weir


So what's the thought about a PB assignment? Myself, I never liked getting All-Star games. Some times it felt like a consolation bone. What's the thought in the NFL? Anyone know?

It's no playoff game but it pays the same and you get to spend some time in Hawaii.

My vote is with Carey...

I'm pretty sure I would have been notified by now if I had been assigned to the game.

Oh well.

my sources say
 

it is Leavy the rest I am not sure about

Re: my sources say
 

REPLY: I am sure...JugglingRef's listing was correct:

R- Bill Leavy #127
U- Garth DeFelice #53
HL- Mark Hittner #28
LJ- Mark Perlman #9
FJ- Steve Zimmer #33
SJ- Tom Hill #97
BJ- Bob Waggoner #25

Alternates:

R- Tony Corrente #99
U- Undrey Wash #96
HL- Tom Stabile #24

Supposedly, Periera makes the formal announcement today.

Here's the article that lists the officials.

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/9201762

Thanks for the information

nice article
 

check this one out. Nothing new to those of us in the"business" but nice to see it out for public consumption...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Re: Pro Bowl
 

Gotta admit - as consolation bones go, there are worse ones than Hawaii.

The only question now is "Which ones will be reprimanded for the worst officiating in Super Bowl History?"

(You gotta admit....)

the fans and the commentators.....(you gotta admit)...they don't usually know much about the actual rules and philosophies.....

So you're saying those officials made absolutely no mistakes? They were perfect in this game? (Perhaps you didn't actually see the game?)

well I have actually looked pretty closely at my post, and I don't see anywhere that says they were absolutely perfect... I did indeed see the game...and I can think of one call that was one I cannot agree with, the block below the waist on Hassleback....but this crew overall did a very good job...without looking at your address are you from the pacific northwest??? LOL

(Not from Pacific Northwest or a Seahawks a fan, if that's what you're saying. Go Dolphins!)

Seriously, you think this crew did a good job? I guess we have different standards then.

Do you think the official made the right call on Sean Locklear's holding penalty in the fourth quarter, negating an 18-yard reception to the one-yard line by Jerramy Stevens?

No question. Hooked his right arm and almost took him down. Defender did go almost all the way down before getting back up. See the other thread.

Most people on this board seem to agree that our "Referee Gods" that called the game did a good job officiating. (They're in the NFL for cryin' out loud... they CAN'T make a bad call!) But as you read this post, think what would happen if you were the covering official. Would YOU have flagged the holding?

I do agree with the OPI in the endzone negating the TD, but I'm not sure how often that gets called compared to how often it happens. Again, would you have made the call? I don't think that gets called as often as it should, and the SB is not the time to start. As far as the Hasselbeck block, that's literally gotta be the worst call I've ever seen. I mean, that's worse than any call I've ever made myself! (And I wear glasses!)

Bottom line: I think there were questionable calls on both sides. It just happened that they hurt Seattle a little more than they did Pittsburgh.

I haven't had the opportunity to study the film, tomorrow at a meeting I will...but on the surface I didn't disagree with either of the calls above...the OPI possibly but at full speed it appeared worse than it did in slow motion

Ok I have had the opportunity to look at the film in slow motion over and over and over...I whole heartedly support the holding and the OPI, no doubt in my mind. The Big Ben TD, inconclusive evidence to overturn whichever call had been made in my opinion...Great Big Kudos to the boys, the hold and OPI were made at full speed, not the slow mo we get to see, and they nailed em....congrats boys, for a job pretty darned well done.

What's that... ah... march of the yes men.

We'll agree to disagree.

you obviously no nothing about me which is not surprising since we have never met...I am as far from a yes man as it gets...with that said, evidently we will agree to disagree, as is the case most of the time with fanboys...

"fanboys" - that clearly shows you know nothing about me either. The rest of the officials in the country and I will continue to take an honest look at a game that had many, many errors in it. You can look away if you like.

The actual problem here is not about who won the SuperBowl or how it was officiated, the issue is what changes need to be made to make the officials more accurate. Perhaps camera angles from above the field for replays. Perhaps full-time officials who are paid full-time wages. Perhaps additional officials on the field. Or off-field officials always reviewing the replays. Or rules changes/clarifications. Now THAT'S an interesting discussion to have!

[Edited by hooper on Feb 7th, 2006 at 01:30 PM]

You mentioned full-time officials being a possibility. I have also seen this talked about by many media members and no one gives an explanation as to how this is supposed to work.

How is making officials "full-time" going to change anything? There are only so many games an official can work. All crews only work one game a week. The NFL is not like the MLB or the NBA where there are multiple games in a week. NFL officials already spend all week reviewing tapes, going over evaluations and talking to each other before they meet up on the weekend for crew meetings. How are you going to make officials spend more time working at a sport that is only weekly? I am not sure how that is going to make officiating better?

Peace

Well, for one thing it will get rid of the distractions of the officials other "real" jobs. That alone will make a difference. On top of that, they'll have more time to watch film, attend clinics, and meet to discuss issues.

This full-time arrangement will also draw in people who might not otherwise have the time, money, or desire to officiate. Perhaps younger people will see this as a career track and there will be more competition for the spots currently filled by the elders. Competition for jobs is a good thing.

I also think the full-time nature of the job would make officials take their positions more seriously (not that they don't do that now.) But the full-time paycheck is a strong motivator.

Just a couple thoughts....

on any full week of competition in the NFL there are 16 games available...7 officials per crew 112 officials active on any one weekend. I know there is at least one crew each week with the week off, so now 119 officials...not sure about alternates etc.. say 150 jobs available in the NFL. I doubt we are going to see any young folks right out of high school training to be 1 of 150 people in the whole country who will make it to the NFL. As for making the officials more accurate, I saw 1 call that I don't know what the official was thinking, the block below the waist on Hassleback. 1 call that either way it is called on the field it will be upheld with video replay, the Big Ben TD. The rest of the calls are pretty accurate, so I am not sure that is really an issue....

Are you denying that officiating has been a problem in the NFL? If so, then I'm not sure what you can add to this discussion.

The average age of an NFL official is nearly 52. The oldest official is 65. Anyone see a problem? I'm not suggesting that mere high school graduates be put on the field in the NFL, but if graduates believe that officiating is a legitimate full-time profession where they can make some money, you can bet that they'll start officiating at pee wee games, and junior high games, and high school games, which could eventually lead to a larger pool of better qualified, young NFL officials (who might be able to keep up with the game a little better.)

Good point JRut.

Any official who thinks there is no room for improvement is fooling themselves. Since you haven't been around long on this forum, I will let you in on a secret that we have many times discussed the fact that we need younger officials. People that initially get into officiating for the money are not typically people that make the best officials, yes there are exceptions. We have all talked about the guy that is just here for the money. Where I take exception is in the fact that the officiating is horrible. Yes there is always room to improve. There is no shortage of qualified young officials for the NFL, there is a shortage of qualified young officials for High School games. The NFL is constantly training, evaluating and bringing up qualified officials. As for keeping up with the play, I think the Super Bowl group did a great job, on a 75 yd run by one of the fastest guys in the league an official was on the 2 yd line when Parker crossed the goal line...pretty damned good if you ask me...I think the real problem lies in the media. The fact that commentators and sportscasters can sit down and disect a play from a multitude of angles at superslow motion is going to lead to some discussion. The fact that a majority of the time the commentators and or sportscasters either don't know the rules or the philosophy of how those rules are applied at different levels and in different conferences leads those discussions into an area that is certainly not one of their expertise. As long as humans officiate the games there will be judgement calls, as long as humans play the games there will be a need for officials. No one in the world feels worse if a call is missed than the guy who missed it. Not many officials miss the same call 2 times, so in the overall scheme of things I am certainly satisfied with the officiating of the Super Bowl, I only hope that someday I could work that "part time" job.....

Hooper - exactly which calls do you think were so bad that officiating needs to be revamped?

I admit that as I was watching the game the first time, there were 4 calls I didn't like. However, now that I've had the opportunity to see these calls again, in slomo, from various angles, the ONLY one I didn't like was the no-catch/fumble on Stephens, which WAS reviewable by Walrusman - he just didn't choose to do so. The BBW on Hasselbeck was bad, but possibly not technically an incorrect call (I believe replays are inconclusive on whether he contacted the blocker) - just one I think I'd prefer not to see on a player trying to make a tackle.

Big Ben was in the EZ.

The OPI (push-off) in the endzone was correct.

The non-fumble by Ben was, after review, correct.

The catch at the pylon was out.

The hold WAS a hold (see the pictures in the other thread).

The only other thing the officials screwed up was that they did not figure out a way to let Seattle have better clock management at the end of both halves.

One might note that Pittsburgh was faced with many more "controversial" and possibly inaccurate calls 2 weeks ago than Seattle was in the Bowl - and Pitt found a way to overcome them.

I have always scratched my head when fans, coaches, and members of the media call for "full-time" officials. I don't get it. How is possible that this could be a full-time career? The season lasts 5 months (Aug-Dec) with a month for the playoffs. The remaining months they are working out, doing rules study, attending meetings and camps, all while maintaining a family and other career.

And why does the current system need to be changed? They make mistakes, we all do. Did they make a bunch of mistakes in the Super Bowl? I personally don't think so. I think all of the calls made were solid, and would love to see video of the IBBW because I thought he contacted another member of the defense in an effort to make the tackle. If so, good call. But these guys are all physically fit. Some may not appear like it, but the NFL does extensive testing of personal fitness before the season. I venture to bet that some of the officials are healthier than some of the linemen. Heck, one of the deep side officials kept up with the running back on the long TD run. Granted the official had a little head start but he did way better than any of us could do I bet.

As for NFL officials, being younger does not equal being a higher caliber official. IMHO, I think to be a quality official in the NFL you should be a little older. With chronological age come immeasurable experience and maturity. Sure, there are a lot of quality younger officials out there. But some of these guys don't have the emotional maturity or personal experience necessary for the job.

And for those of you that question how much time and effort the league and its officials do, I encourage you to watch the Officials Review segments from the NFL network (there is a link on my site listed in my signature). These guys dissect almost every play each weekend. The officials grade and critique each call. They watch film and read over the rule books each week. Yes, it is demanding but it's part of the job.

These guys do their job with remarkable accuracy. Way more accuracy than many of us do ours.

Hey, it's been a couple of years since we heard the "full-time officials will solve everything" song.

Who said full-time officiating would solve everything?

It's one of many solutions that are being and should be considered. Whether we want to admit it or not, there are problems with the officials and the officiating system in the NFL. I've heard more than one person say, "I gave up on pro football. No one can get a fair game." And while I don't necessarily agree with that statement, it's become common knowledge that there are problems in the system. We can sit around and be defensive and deny that they exist, or we can come up with some solutions.

The old guard will always deny and protect and fend off change. That's too bad because we could be so much better, give the game a better name, and make the game more fair.
But if you're not even willing to admit there's a problem, there will never be improvement. And that is sad indeed.

People make mistakes, that's true at any level.

I don't think I'm being obtuse here - I'm honestly asking you... what are these problems that you seem to think are so widespread that they need fixing?

Improvement has to start at the bottom. Hooper, you seem to want improvement so bad then you need to be the first to get involved and become an official. We've already stated that the High School level of officials is running dry. Once the well runs out in High Schools, then where are the colleges going to get officials from who in turn feed the NFL with officials. If their not "good" in high school, do you think they will be better as college officials? No. Not every official has what we prefer in officiating, but since we are short of officials we have to use what we got or there is no game. Somewhere, right now there is a future NFL Super Bowl referee who hasn't yet began officiating. He's some average joe who is a fan of the game. Could it be you? It just might me. Step up to the plate and give it a shot. You'll enjoy it so much and money will be the last thing on your mind. I'd bet half of us would do this for free. Most of us here are just high school and college officials and you can look at the history of our posts and see that we are "full time" officials. The NFL officials put in much more time that that. I clock in more time on officiating discussions than I do my real job. (shh, don't tell my boss.)

Every mechanic manual I've read says to only call what you see. (ie if you don't see the pass actually hit the ground then it's complete) What replay actually shows the ball crossing the goal line? Sure we can "assume" it did from where his arm was at, but you can't see the ball. I just don't see how you guys are 100% sure he got in when no replay even shows the ball.

Regardless of it all, even if they did give them the ball at the 1 inch line, they score on the next play anyway.

My point exactly. We need more officials OVERALL! (It's a pretty thankless job, after all.) I can't believe that offering a full-time salary with benefits would do anything but help attract more people to the profession. Imagine if you got health insurance through your officiating job. Imagine if you got a 401K and bonuses and life insurance and disability insurance and dental and vision care. Or even a gym membership or daycare services, like many corporate jobs provide!

I understand that many people officiate for the love of the game, to get some exercise, and stay involved with the sport. I wonder how many people would be more willing to do it they were paid well for their efforts as well. More people means tougher competition, higher standards, and a larger pool to move up the chain.

I can't see how that would be a bad thing!

Well, four blown calls in the Superbowl is a good place to start. Other games to check out:

Steelers/Colts particulars:

Troy Polamalu - diving interception
The off-sides "do-over"
Uncalled pass intereference on Cedric Wilson play

Pats/Broncos:
Pass interference - Lelie and Samuel
Baily interception and fumble

Bears/Panthers:
Illegal contact on touchdown play - Smith and Tillman
Bears "touchdown" after fumble

Do I need to go on?

The point is that there are systemic problems that need change. Nothing we can do about the past. So moving on...

No reason to move on. You've just pointed out something that we already knew. Officials are going to make mistakes. We continue to strive for perfection, but we know as humans it will never happen. My point is, what happens when we reach the point to where we can all agree that the officials are at the highest peak humanly possible, but yet they are still making mistakes. At some point in time we have to accept what we have and accept there will be controversial calls. They are part of the game much like a dropped pass. I don't care how good your QB is or how good the Receiver is, there will always be dropped passes. The officials in this Super Bowl were the highest rated officials at their position. Every Super Bowl in past years have had some controversy. It will never go away no matter how much "full time" we get.

I believe this is probably the only group where you can argue that people need to be paid more and get benefits, and the people will argue with you about it!

We're nowhere NEAR the point where "we agree that the officials are at the highest peak humanly possible." We're FAR from that. Once we get there, we can have the discussion about what to do, but in the meantime, let's fix what's broken!

Frankly, in most professional positions, if you erred as often and as severely as the NFL officials have this year, you would be fired. Modify the rules, make the positions full-time and pay what is owed, revise the re-play personnel and procedures, add more officials per game, increase the number of camera angles for use by the officals, something, anything!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The rules are written by owners and coaches, so we as officials can't change the rules. Our mechanics are pretty top notch but are changed yearly to put us in a position to see the action and to keep up with the evolving plays that teams use. A couple of years ago there was a group of rabid fans complaining that officials were blind. This was told to me by Walt Coleman. He said that the NFL decided to get some extensive eye exams to prove their officials could see just fine. The eye exam expert told them that the ball moves 5 yards with each blink to the time that you regain focus. Next time you watch a game note where ball is and then blink your eyes and you'll see that's true. If the ball had gone 5 yards with the blink of your eye imagine what else can be missed when you naturally blink your eyes. You could probably miss an offside, illegal contact, pass interference, and quite a number of other fouls all in the blink of an eye. Please don't suggest that we tape our eyes open. :) I don't think there is much more improvement to expect from the NFL. I read somewhere that all the NFL officials combined have graded out at 97%. That's a good grade no matter what type of work you do. I think in order for the game to improve more attention needs to be given to the players and their gameplay. The past several seasons the performances by the players haven't been all that entertaining. The NFL lost a good player in Barry Sanders. Who is one player on any team where you just say "WOW" when you see them play? The discipline level of todays players is out of control and it shows in the quality of play.

For those who want them to be full time, what do we do with the guys who are already NFL officials? I don't think these guys who are CEO's, lawyers, company presidents, administrators, and other professional jobs will just give up their jobs to go full time. Many of them are already making 6 figures and will not give that up to continue to officiate.

Secondly, how much better can they be just because they are full time? I have personally talked to 3 NFL officials and they say during the season, it is pretty much a full time job. How full time can they be during the offseason? I don't see 40-50 hours of work a week between Feb-May.

I really do not see them being any better going full time, but see many problems with the issue.

The only way the officiating gets better is when the players don't drop passes, every block and tackle is made perfectly and when every play is a perfect call...hooper, you're way off base. I can't believe how many officials in the NFL are faced with an instantaneous decision on a play when the athletes involved are the best in the world and even six slo-mo angles are at best a matter of millitmeters one way or the other. Some NFL official once said it's like standing next to the tracks and trying to read the words on the boxcars of a speeding train. Where in the world do full time officials work the other seven months of the year?

Paying officials on a full time basis is not going to make people want to officiate at the NFL level any more than the officials already do. If you are not aware the officials make enough money officiating that they can live off of that salary. In the off season NFL officials do the same thing that other pro sports officials do. They attend camps, meetings and required functions by the league to continue training and philosophies.

As I have stated before, I belong to an association that has 3 current NFL officials as members. They attend meetings every year and teach things at clinics. They show NFL tapes and share the philosophy. The hold that was called on Seattle I have seen multiple times with actually NFL Officiating tape footage. Mike Perriera (sp?) even talked about officials watching for break away players and those blocks need to be paid attention to.

The media is the problem, the officials are fine.

Peace

Officials are human. We make mistakes, no matter what sport we're talking about. Look at other sports where the officials are "full-time", baseball, and I think basketball. Do these individuals make mistakes? Last time I checked they did.

I think the problem lies with the media. They are so quick to roast the officials, everything is the officials fault, we had it in for them, we lost so-and-so the game, b**lsh*t. Media personnel have zero understanding and knowledge about the rules, mechanics, and responsibilities of the officials. They throw the stripes under the bus the first chance they get. All the while, this fuels the fire of ignorance of the common fan. Most fans don't know the rules. Heck, most HS and many college officials don't know all of the NFL rules.

Full-time isn't the answer. I think better understanding from fans and the media is a great place to start, but I also feel that the league should step up and offer an explanation of these calls. Maybe that would open up an even bigger can of worms but I feel it would hush some of the ignorance surrounding the entire event.

I strongly differ with the assertion that there were 4 blown calls in the Super Bowl. I think that most of the "controversial" calls were correct. I maintain that there was 1 questionable call (the BBW on Hasselbeck - I can't tell from replay if he actually contacted the blocker or not - but even if he did, that's not usually a call you make on a player trying to make a tackle), and 1 wrong call (not one mentioned much, actually - I think the no-catch/fumble by Jerramy Stephens was wrong. But Walrusman didn't challenge it, so we didn't get to see 10 replays of it).

2 wrong calls out of over 1000 decision points? 99.8% success rate. You'd fire a guy with that kind of accuracy at your job? Sheez.

You mentioned other games. I agree the Pitt-Indi game was a particularly poor showing. I didn't see the others you mention.

The perfect game has never been officiated, played or coached.

Imbecile.

the NFL is satisfied
 

A sure sign that we'll see no improvements to the disasterous officiating in the NFL. Ah, well. Bring on March Madness!

a sure sign alright
 

ahhh a sure sign that we will see hooper on the baskeball board next month complaing about how the officials in the regional semi final cost some poor team the national championship, by calling a player control foul and not an and one for the block when the defender was clearly in the no charge circle.......
sheeeeeeeesh......

Hoopers, you said it yourself. But just think a bit first ... if you believe that no one can get a fairly officiated game in the NFL, then logically the game is officiated perfectly fair for both teams in every game since BOTH teams are being short changed so severely.

Let's think about this one for a minute. If you make all of the officials in the NFL "full time" officials, what are you going to change nationally (think about how many associations there are in the U.S. alone!)to make officials even more qualified BEFORE they get into the NFL? If you don't think that's a problem, think about how many youngsters (not those ancient 50 year old dudes with 20-30 years of actual on-field experience)you are going to have to give a full time wage for several years just to bring them up to your NFL standards prior to putting them on the fields.

How many of the plays, both offensive and defensive, that failed so badly without an official's call being made at all were called by the officials? Maybe Seattle just simply got outplayed.

Finally, can you give me an estimate as to how many of the media personnel have actually had any training as an official in terms of rules interpretation, mechanics, philosophy, etc. Make sure you include the former players who so often speak with such impeccable expertise about rules they never heard about in their life.

You might want to be a little more careful about who you are listening to ... radio talk show hosts aren't all that reliable. If they were, most would be out of a job for not stirring up enough controversy.

REPLY: Hey Bob...don't you go disparaging us "...50 year old dudes with 20-30 years of actual on-field experience." I can get my walker up and down the field with the best of them!
<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxmk788DHUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_4_122.gif' alt='Old Man' border=0></a>

50 year olds with walkers
 

Yo, Bob M: It was intended that Hooper would notice the attempt at sarcasm I embedded in my message to help him discover his ineptitude in the area of political correctness, not to mention his insults, both implied and overt, to those of us (myself included 59 years old with 25 years experience)in the offended group. I'm certain he would choose the 25 year old full-time brain surgeon over the 50 year old with 25 years of experience who only performs from September thru January... but not me! I'll take the guy with experience every time.