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-   -   NFL off setting penalties (https://forum.officiating.com/football/23618-nfl-off-setting-penalties.html)

shave-tail Sun Dec 11, 2005 06:28pm

Could someone explain to me why a holding call on the receiving team and a 15 yard personal foul - face mask on the punting team off-set? At the very least...the receiving team should get the additional 5 yards. If it matters, this happened on a PSK and they replayed the down. However, I have seen the same thing on a running play. Thanks.

JugglingReferee Mon Dec 12, 2005 07:42am

I believe that fouls by each team offset unless they're 5 and 15. (Offside and major facemask, par exmaple.) In that case, they do not offset. But I don't know what happens either.

mikesears Mon Dec 12, 2005 08:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I believe that fouls by each team offset unless they're 5 and 15. (Offside and major facemask, par exmaple.) In that case, they do not offset. But I don't know what happens either.
Only the 15 yard penalty is enforced.

JasonTX Mon Dec 12, 2005 09:34am

I don't remember the teams, but I believe this was a game that Jeff Tripplette was the R. If this is the same game, they didn't replay the down. His announcement was something along the lines of, "The penalties offset and by rule the receiving team keeps the ball at the spot of their foul."

MJT Mon Dec 12, 2005 09:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by JasonTX
I don't remember the teams, but I believe this was a game that Jeff Tripplette was the R. If this is the same game, they didn't replay the down. His announcement was something along the lines of, "The penalties offset and by rule the receiving team keeps the ball at the spot of their foul."
That is how it works in the NFL. It is called a "double after COP" and is one of 14 hoppers which the penalty will fall into for penalty enforcement. The NFL rules can get VERY complex.

shave-tail Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:42am

JasonTX, the game was Colts and the Jags. I just talked to my buddy at work and confirmed that they re-kicked without any penalty enforcement. The next PSK went out of bounds. Still seems odd that you can about rip someone's head off (this was one of the best face masks if seen in a while) verse a simple hold and the penalties off-set. I would think that a personal foul verses a "common" foul would carry more weight when it comes to enforcement. Just my opinion, and you know what they say......everyone has one!

Dommer1 Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:53am

Excerpt from NFL rule 14-3-3:

If a double foul occurs after a change of possession, the team in possession retains the ball at the spot where the teams in possession's foul occured so long as that spot is not in advance of the dead ball spot. In that event, ball is spotted at dead ball spot.

shave-tail Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:17am

The foul by the receiving (holding) occured while the ball was in the air. The foul by the kicking team (face mask) happened after the change of possesion.

JasonTX Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:19am

shave-tail, here is a copy from the game stats of this game. This is the only play in which 2 fouls occured on the same play. Your buddy must be thinking of some other play, but this one I am 100% sure they didn't re-kick.

Second Quarter
4-6-JAC20 (9:44) C.Hanson punts 47 yards to IND 33, Center-J.Zelenka. T.Walters to IND 36 for 3 yards (B.Jones). Penalty on JAX-B.Jones, Face Mask (15 Yards), offsetting, enforced at IND 35. Penalty on IND-De.Reid, Offensive Holding, offsetting

Dommer1 Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:22am

That is a so called post-possession foul, and this rule applies when one of the fouls is a post-possession foul as well.

golfnref Mon Dec 12, 2005 09:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mikesears
Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I believe that fouls by each team offset unless they're 5 and 15. (Offside and major facemask, par exmaple.) In that case, they do not offset. But I don't know what happens either.
Only the 15 yard penalty is enforced.

Mike is right providing the 5 yard penalty is a simple 5.
Simple 5 means it is not a foul that carries an automatic first down (defensive holding) or loss of down (illegal forward pass beyond the LOS). If the 5 is not a simple five, the penalties offset.


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