Downing a punt

[rice037]

Ok, so I've searched all day just to get to this point, but now there are questions that I simply cannot find on the internet... So, in the NFL this weekend, a team had punted, a player from the kicking team ran down to attempt to down the punt short of the endzone, as the ball was coming down he accidently stepped into the endzone a couple steps, then tried to sorta get back out to tip the ball back, but either way when he touched the ball he was in the endzone, so this was clearly a touchback, BUT this sparked up some debate...

So first of all, I stated that in either the NFL or college that there is no tipping the ball back, because once it crosses the plane of the endzone the ball is a touchback. After searching for it, this is true in college, once the ball breaks the plain, it is a touchback, but an interesting part of this is that the player tipping the ball back into play can be in the endzone, this does not matter, only the position of the ball, much like a runner trying to score a touchdown. So anyway, the other point was that we both knew that if that player jumps from out of bounds, or jumps and 1of his feet were in the endzone, and that successfully bats the ball backwards, to the 2 yard line say, that this is a touchback. Now the discussion was whether the player can step into the endzone, and then reestablish his position on the 2 yard line, and then tip the ball back in. Now his argument was that it's like going out of bounds and then coming back in, there is something that is tracked saying you have been in the endzone, and now if you touch the ball, even if it's just laying at the 8 yard line, it is a touchback. My point was that it's more like saving a ball in basketball, that it's the fact that you're jumping from the endzone that makes you a part of the endzone, so if i run around in the endzone like an idiot for 2 seconds, then the ball starts coming down at the 2, then I run out of the endzone, have both feet at the 2 yard line, standing there for 2 seconds, then I catch it there, it can be down at the 2 yard line. (haha, yes that would be a high punt for all that to happen, but it's a hypothetical) Any info is appreciated.

[mikesears]

I'm no NFL official but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express late night. ..... anyway .....

I do work under NFL rules in a semi-pro league I work in.

Not sure of the exact rule number, but NFL rules state that the player must be in the field of play or establish himself in the field of play (two feet) before touching a kick or else it is a touchback.

Being in the endzone is not tracked. If a player comes back out of the endzone and establishes himself there he can legally down the ball without it being a touchback.

[Theisey]

NCAA: breaking the plane of the goal line does not make it an automatic touchback. Should the ball have landed in the EZ untouched in the field of play by team-B, then it would be a touchback.

There is a special case where team-A can reach back into the EZ to bat the ball back into the field of play. This is called a volation which could result in a touchback when it is declared dead in the field of play. Team-B could pick up the ball and run if they like, but unless then get past the 20, they can elect to have it placed at the 20 because of the Team-A violation.

Unlike the NFL, what matters is where the ball is in relation to the ploane of the goal line, not where the player is.

[rice037]

Thanks for the replies mikesears. I was curious about the 2 feet you mentioned. Are you saying that if the ball is floating over the endzone, and I leap from the 1 foot line, no part of me touching the endzone, then bat the ball backwards, that this doesn't count cause I was within 2 feet? I've never heard of any significance to the 2 foot line.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by rice037
Thanks for the replies mikesears. I was curious about the 2 feet you mentioned. Are you saying that if the ball is floating over the endzone, and I leap from the 1 foot line, no part of me touching the endzone, then bat the ball backwards, that this doesn't count cause I was within 2 feet? I've never heard of any significance to the 2 foot line.

REPLY: I believe that Mike used the phrase "two feet" not as a distance requirement, but rather as an indication that a player must have his two feet down in order to establish himself inbounds (vs. out of bounds). Just like when a receiver catches a pass near the sideline. He must have his two feet down inbounds to be granted the catch. Isn't that correct Mike? Wasn't that what you were speaking about?

[rice037]

hahahaha, yeah, that is what he meant, sorry, I'm an idiot...

[Sonofanump]

Ricky Henderson once was told those with “tenure” could sit at the front of the team bus.

Ricky said “ Ten year? Ricky got 18 year”.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by rice037
hahahaha, yeah, that is what he meant, sorry, I'm an idiot...

I'm the idiot. I didn't convey my message very clearly. Yes, I meant that he has to have both feet in the field of play.

[MJT]

Originally posted by mikesears
I'm no NFL official but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express late night. ..... anyway .....

I do work under NFL rules in a semi-pro league I work in.

Not sure of the exact rule number, but NFL rules state that the player must be in the field of play or establish himself in the field of play (two feet) before touching a kick or else it is a touchback.

Being in the endzone is not tracked. If a player comes back out of the endzone and establishes himself there he can legally down the ball without it being a touchback.

I work semi-pro ball as well and have an official NFL rule book from a current NFL official and rule 9-1-13 is the rule Mike is referring to.