Please help with the ruling on the following two situations.

1. Team A has the ball 4th and 10. A1 runs for a nine yard gain and then steps out of bounds where he is hit. A flag is thrown for a personal foul. This is a dead ball foul. Should Team B get the ball and then have the penalty assessed. It seems that since the foul occured AFTER the down, that Team B should get the ball.

2. Team A has the ball 4th and 10. A1 runs for a five yard gain and is tackled. The R signals first down for B. B3 is then flagged for a dead ball foul. Does A get a first down now?

These two situations seem technically alike, but the rulings probably will be different. I am confused.

Both cases, team-B takes over 1st and 10 after enforcement of the dead ball fouls.

That is my interpretationalso.

I ask this because I work the chains at Indiana State. Today Western Illinois was 4th and something and lined up for a FG. The snap was bad and the holder scrambled and threw a completed pass short of the first down marker. There was a flag for a hit OOB. The R tacked on 15 yards to the end of the run, giving Western a first and ten.

I am a white hat on a HS varsity crew and I thought that maybe the college rule is different. I would have given ISU the ball, took them back 15 yards and had first and ten.

Right?

Anyone know if there is a difference in this rule between the NF and the NCAA? Everyone I talk to seems to think that teh crew at ISU kicked this one. But that is according to NF rules.

NCAA In both cases B gets the ball with the penalty then enforced.

In sit 2 if R gives signal for 1st down for B and gives RFP. If there us a dead ball for for persoanl foul after this its 1st and 25.

Andy - until the chains have been set, I would not be giving a 1st and 25. He had signalled 1st down, that is all... The penalty can be administered and the chains set for 1st and 10 15 yards back.
I think that is the oppinion you will get from most people around here.

James

I think he is saying the 1st and 25 can result from a foul after the RFP is blown. Under NCAA rules that is correct. The R has done more than signal 1st down. He has ensured the box man is at correct spot (hopefully) and blown the RFP. Foul after that RFP and it will be 1st and 25

TXMike - thanks. After re-reading Andy's post, I think you interpreted it correct. I read over the RFP and was thinking preliminary first down signal... Gotta keep my head in the game!

James

Canadian Ruling
 

1. Dead ball foul. The down ended with A stepping OB. B 1D/10, 15y back.

2. Ditto... play was over, B gets the ball, then assess the penalty.