Roamin' Umpire: Just curious, are you from PA?

Others - sorry to get off track.

Sorry to stay off track...are you from PA ljudge?

Nope, I'm a Jersey native (Toms River), but I've been in Troy, NY (near Albany) for the past decade or so.

REPLY: ljudge, waltjp, and myself are from New Jersey. ljudge is from the Southern chapter, waltjp and I are from the Northern chapter. There is a central chapter and a small Atlantic chapter as well.

If I may ask, how large of a geographic area do you cover in the northern chapter? (in the southern chapter for ljudge?)

Just curious...sorry to get us way, way off track now...

Regular safety signal. I'd go to the sidelines and communicate with the pressbox to make sure they gave the defense 1 pt.


Option #3 is not available. The option to accept points and enforce the penalty from the succeeding spot is not available on a safety. It's only available when the
opponent of the scoring team commits a live ball foul on a play which results in a TD (8-2-2), successful field goal (8-4-3) or successful try (8-3-5). They do have Option #2 and it's easy to conceive of a scenario where they
would want to take the penalty, enforce half the distance, and go for two. But it wouldn't be 1/2 the distance from the spot of the illegal kick, necessarily. If the
fumble occurred in or behind the neutral zone, this is a loose ball play, and enforcement would be from the previous spot (the 3yd. line). If the fumble occurred beyond the neutral zone, enforcement is from the end of the run, i.e., the spot of the fumble. On defensive fouls the spot of the foul is never an enforcement spot. A safety is not a successful try since trys can only be 1 pt. by kick that would otherwise be a field goal if it occurred during a regular scrimmage down, or 2 pts.
for what would otherwise be a TD during a regular scrimmage down. 8-3-3. A safety is neither.

sm_bbcoach - I was with you until I looked in my rules book. At the top of rule 8 there is a table listing the points values for different scoring plays. It lists a successful try as being a touchdown for 2 points or either a field goal or a safety for 1 point.

8-3-3 During a try, A may score two points from what would be a touchdown or one point for a field goal or safety by B under rules governing play at other times during the game.

So a safety by A is considered a successful try and thus the penalty can be enforced at the succeeding spot.

I think the key word in this rule is: "FROM WHAT WOULD BE" a touchdown. It is NOT a touchdown, just as a 1 pt try is NOT a field Goal. The book does not give a defination or discussion in the box, just a point summary.

why would the defense get the 1 point? wouldnt the offense get the point?

Who said anything about the penalty for the illegal kick being enforced from the spot of the foul? The basic spot and the spot of the foul are two entirely different spots.

Also, I agree with Warren on the availability of Option 3 in this scenario.

[Edited by Kirby on Nov 8th, 2005 at 05:59 PM]

When they say they get two points "from what would be a TD" they are making a comparison and saying that a TD during a try is worth two points. I believe that the option exists for the succeeding spot.

Well I have given you a place in the rule book, and the only one I can find, that says a successful try includes a safety. If you can show me a place that says a safety is not a successful try then I will go with your interpreitation.

I must agree with Warren Kicker here. It clearly is a "successful try", and as a result the "offended" team A can accept the result of the play and walkoff the penalty from the succeeding spot (the kickoff). Does that seem to make sense?

Quite an unusual play to say the least.

GH

Defensive point on safety
 

I am not an official, just an average fan.

I understand that in NCAA , the defense be awarded 1 point on a safety by offense.

Can the the defense be awarded 1 point on a safety by offense in nfl or high school. This would not involve change of possession if offense ran backward out of its own end zone 98 yards. What would you announce to the crowd? I understand it says defense cannot score, but is the spirit of this that defense cannot gain possession and attempt its own try (since it was not the one scoring the touchdown). If there is a safety by offense (offense commits huge blunder), and the play meets all of the other standards, is defense awarded one point?

Also, in high school and college, can a placekick or dropkick that is not behind line of scrimmage score a field goal? This was legal in nfl until 1991.

I am pretty sure that the nfl rulebook spells out who receives a kickoff after touchdown, safety, and field goal, without leaving any choice in the matter. What exactly does the high school and college rulebook say in this regard (and if I am wrong about the nfl, where do I find this in the rules, because the section on scoring clearly states who will receive the kick)?