2nd and 10 with 5 seconds left in the 2nd quarter. team B is charged with a dead ball late hit. obviously the penlty will be accepted. will team A have an untimed down or will they have to get the play off in 5 seconds? also, does it matter if the dead ball foul is on either team A or B in this situation, will there be an untimed down? since it didnt happen during a down i believe they must get the play off in 5 seconds. team A was out of time outs and the coach is arguing since it was a penalty on the defense there should be a untimed down. probably true in the nfl.

[Edited by yankeesfan on Sep 25th, 2005 at 11:14 PM]

They will not get an untimed down as the foul did not occur during the last timed down of the quarter. You simply have to make it very clear to the offensive team that after you blow the RFP, the clock will start. Then be smart on your timing of the RFP by checking that all other officials are ready, and by doing so the offense will have plenty of time.

No untimed down in the NFL either.

I agree - no UTD.

I disagree that you should be "smart" about your RFP, seemingly delaying more than usual to benefit the offense. You should do things EXACTLY the way you did them for every other play that half. If that means waiting as long as possible on every play, then sure - wait as long as possible here too. If that means ensuring the umpire and chains are ready, and blowing it ready - then do that here too. It's very important to maintain the same timing on these plays as you would on any other play, or else you are giving an unearned advantage to the offense.

I agree with mcrowder about maintaining consistent tempo throughout the game. What MJT described is only a slight departure and I doubt you would be faulted for that. What I don't understand is so often watching an NCAA or NFL game when time is tight near the end of a half, it is OBVIOUS the officials are trying to get the ball spotted VERY QUICKLY in order for the offense to get another play off. To me, that reeks of favoritism toward the offense. Again, it's fine if thats the way you do it every play, but it seldom is.

I believe the NFL does so BY RULE.

I disagree.

There will be an untimed down. NF 3-3-3a.

Think about it. After enforcing the penalty when will the next down start? NF 2-7-1 says a down starts when the ball is legally snapped. If the clock runs out before the snap then the down did not start therefore it could not be the last timed down. In actuality the last timed down was the down in which the penalty occured and was accepted.
NF 3-3-3a says to replay the down.

Not convinced. See casebook 3.3.3. Situation C

Daryl,

NO untimed down in Yankeesfan's situation. He had a dead ball penalty in his situation.

Casebook play 3.3.3 Situation C has a live ball penalty that occurred DURING the last timed down.

Not convinced. See casebook 3.3.3 Situation [b]E

No Untimed Down
 

Patton's got it right. No untimed down. The foul must occur during the last timed down of the period. The deadball foul is not during the down.

I agree. Dead ball foul = no untimed down.

Thanks for the reminder it was a dead ball foul. My previous reply obviously was for a live ball foul. No excuse on my part for answering as if live ball as the sitch clearly stated it was a dead ball late hit.

Nice touch at the end with the "not convinced" line. I deserved it.

:) Meant in fun I hope you know!