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-   -   What do you have? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/21898-what-do-you-have.html)

jrfath Fri Aug 26, 2005 01:37pm

Situation...

3rd and 5 from A's 40.
A1 sweeps around the side on an option. He runs past the line of scrimmage to A's 45, where he tries to pitch to A2...
BUT the pitch is forward, and RB-A2 drops it. The ball hits the ground, A2 picks it up on the hop, and continues to run downfield where he is tackled at B's 45 yard line.


don't move Fri Aug 26, 2005 01:42pm

Illegal forward pass. Dead and incomplete when it hits the ground. A is penalized 5 yds and loss of down from the spot of the pass.

dumbref Fri Aug 26, 2005 01:44pm

You have an illegal pass and an incomplete pass.

dh898 Fri Aug 26, 2005 01:55pm

What if B recovers. Is it still an incomplete pass or is it a fumble?

don't move Fri Aug 26, 2005 02:02pm

B just recovered a dead ball: the incompleted pass. Still A's ball after penalty enforcement.

mcrowder Fri Aug 26, 2005 02:30pm

Why would you think it was a fumble? The QB's intent is immaterial - he threw a forward pass.

jrfath Fri Aug 26, 2005 02:37pm

Rule 3-4-4f
The clock shall be stopped when...a legal or illegal forward pass is incomplete.

Kirby Fri Aug 26, 2005 02:38pm

Incomplete illegal fwd pass.
If B accepts: 5 yds from spot of foul and LOD, 4th & 5 from the A-40
If B declines: The ball is put in play at the spot of the illegal pass (they would never decline this)

Expanding on the situation, let's say this is a penalty that does not include LOD.....so accepting would leave 3rd & 5....and declining would leave 4th & inches or 1st & 10.

Could B request measurement before deciding if they will Accept or Decline the penalty? If the result of the play would leave a 4th & inches situation, B might want to decline the penalty and if it would result in a 1st & 10 they would obviously accept to make it 3rd & 5.

Is it supported by rule that B may request measurement before deciding on penalty options?

mcrowder Fri Aug 26, 2005 03:29pm

Fodder for a completely different thread... but of course the team deciding whether to accept or decline a penalty is entitled to all of the relevant information.

JugglingReferee Fri Aug 26, 2005 07:04pm

Canadian Ruling
 
Quote:

Originally posted by jrfath
Situation...

3rd and 5 from A's 40.
A1 sweeps around the side on an option. He runs past the line of scrimmage to A's 45, where he tries to pitch to A2...
BUT the pitch is forward, and RB-A2 drops it. The ball hits the ground, A2 picks it up on the hop, and continues to run downfield where he is tackled at B's 45 yard line.

Offside pass (subject to penalty). And a live ball.

B will require A to scrimmage from the A-45, with a first down due to yards gained.


Mark Dexter Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by dh898
What if B recovers. Is it still an incomplete pass or is it a fumble?
Same as for a legal forward pass - he needs to posess it before it touches the ground.


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