4th/10 from K's 20. K is in scrimmage kick formation with K1 seven yards behind the snapper. K1 receives the snap and begins the kicking motion but his foot hasn't touched the ball when R2 contacts K1 with a hard but legal hit. The ball rolls to R's 40 where K2 falls on it. Ruling?

Sounds to me like a blocked kick...

It's a legal tackle. K1 is a runner up until he actually kicks the ball. K recovers the fumble on the 40 so it's K's ball, 1st & 10.

I'm calling it a forward pass :D

Cause if I don't, this must have been one heck of a hit to cause the ball to go 27 yards foward!

If K doesn't kick it, this is a fumble. Typing out loud here ..... I don't see how K1 is down because he is still under the exception allowing him to hold the ball with knee(s) on ground. Now if he were knocked to his butt and THEN the ball comes loose, it is a dead ball.

I found an interesting comment in the NFHS Handbook - page 52 - "A kicker does not become a kcker until his foot meets the ball in a punt or a drop kick. Up to that instant he is a runner and since he may fake a kick and try to advance he may be tackled. Once he becomes a kicker, he remains a kicker until he has completely regained his balance. Therefore, the period involved in roughing the kicker begins with his foot contacting the ball and continues until he regains his balance."

Mike: actually this play is a punt. Sorry if it sounds like a field goal.

Oops. My bad.

REPLY: NFHS and NCAA rules agree that until he puts his foot to the ball, K1 is a runner and can be legally hit and tackled. So the hit is legal. If, subsequent to the hit, he's still able to make contact with the ball, the remaining kicking rules apply; if not, any loose ball would be considered a fumble.

The lenght the ball travelled was a typo on my part. Sorry for that.

This can't be a fumble... the ball rolled FORTY SEVEN yards (not 27). This had to have been kicked. Contact was legal, and this is a punt. R's ball.

This is what I first thought when I read the OP. That's a long way for a ball to roll and bobble around so he must have made foot contact. Therefore we still have a basic scrimmage kick.

Now if K1 was hit a split second after regaining his balance we would have "Illegal Blocking" since the "kicker" cannot be blocked before the kick has touched the ground or any other player?

WM

Canadian Ruling
 

K 1D/10 @ R-40.

Re: Canadian Ruling
 

If R never touched the ball beyond the neutral zone, how can it be K's ball? Looks like a scrimmage kick untouched by R.

To keep it simple - K wasn't a kicker so the contact was legal.

If K's foot touched the ball - it's a scrimmage kick and R gets the ball.

If K's foot didn't touch the ball - it's one heck of fumble and it's K's ball. (though I saw his foot kick the ball after the contact, in which case we have an easy call!) :)

Re: Re: Canadian Ruling
 

Keep in mind that my statement covers the Canadian ruling.

K1 has the ball but gets hit before he can do anything with it. This is a fumble in our game. On a fumble, anybody may legally gain possession of the ball. When K does, and it downed at R's 40, it is many yards beyond the line-to-gain. K 1D.