Worked the first interschool scrimmage of the season Friday night. Didn't see any 9-yards marks on the field. Asked the coach about it and he says, "There are supposed to be 9-yard marks??? What are those? Was that in the big packet the IHSA sent me?"

The big packet contains the rulebook, casebook, and handbook as well as points of emphasis and rule changes. Coach didn't bother to open it.

Can't wait until opening night :D

LOL That really doesn't suprise me to be honest.

watched a game Friday night and one school most of the time had their wide out between the numbers and sideline prior and after the ready for play. In the first half alone I counted eight times with no flags thrown. Oh yea, I left at half time because with 7 minutes to go before the half lightening was very noticeable.

Now is this IP-15yrds or IS-5yrds? From my understanding it is the IP for 15 yards but cannot understand why not one time was it blown.

Off the top of my head it is illegal formation I believe. Rule 7-2 something. And remember, the 9 yard marks only come into consideration during plays from scrimmage, not free kicks.

IP is when a subtitute enters the down in action. I'm going to stop there because I don't have the books in front of me and I don't want to spread any wrong information.

Neither IS or IP. It's illegal formation.

It is illegal formation, 5 yards from PS. See 7-2-1

I worked a field yesterday that had the marks. Watched another field that didn't. But the kicker was something I heard at the second game from another official. A coach at a 3rd field thought he had to keep his players all lined up INSIDE of these new 9 yard hash marks. 2nd year coach.

While discussing field markings at our rules meeting our supervisor said "by the way, if you're a school and you're going to fire the guy who marks the field, be sure and fire him AFTER you have him mark the field".

Apparently this was a true story here in Nebrasksa and the guy did quite a number on the field, including marking every yard line from sideline to sideline.

Maybe the refs thought that there was no advantage being gained? I understand that under the rules it's a penalty, but if there's no victim in the crime there's no need to stop the game for a flag.

My crew actually did two varsity regular season games (we get started early in South GA) and both fields had the markings correct. Shocking.

Don't your coaches have to attend a rules meeting where this should have been discussed at length? I know they did here in Indiana.

It is definately Illegal Formation Live ball foul because the offending player can rectify the situation right up until the snap.

Illegal substitution still could be called if there is a substitution not completed by a player not coming inside those "tick marks." Illegal Formation would apply if no substitution is made (or has been completed) and a player never comes inside the marks.

Peace

The 9-yard marks have nothing to do with illegal substitution. It's clearly an illegal formation call as previously stated.

North Carolina has informed us to enforce the 9-yard marks rule for scrimamge and free kicks as well for consistency.

As long as the wideouts who may not have been inside the marks are covered by B, I will be giving warnings before the illegal formation flags are thrown.

As I noticed in my game Friday night, 9 yards is relatively close to the sideline, so there should not be many problems. I do not think it will change much as far as the way the game is officiated, or number of flags for this penalty.

The rule applies to scrimmage kicks, so that's nothing new.
However, how are you going to enforce it on a free kick, and better yet, why? Most teams are lined up and spread out before the RFP and then kick away just a few seconds after the RFP. Not only that, but as officials, don't we make sure they have 11 players before we even hand the kicker the ball? The receiving team has plenty of time to find their blocking assignments. Unnecessary in my opinion.

Missouri said scrimmage plays only. As Patton said, it just isn't necessary and it doesn't work on free kicks so why try to extend the rule to cover it?

I agree with you both, and you will not see me flagging it on free kicks. It is just what the state (NC) passed down to us.

Motion from outside the 9-yard marks to inside...
 

NC also has this interpretation. What do you think about it?

"If the receiver comes onto the field after the ready signal and sets outside the 9-yard marks, his going into motion during the cadence and moving inside the 9-yard marks DOES NOT bring him into compliance with Rule 7.2.1 and this would be an Illegal Formation penalty."

I assume this indicates the receiver does not reset inside the 9-yard marks after going in motion.

I think it's wrong. The rule says that play would be legal and it will be legal in the other 47 states - just not in NC!

Re: Motion from outside the 9-yard marks to inside...
 

That sounds really wierd to me, that would be legal where I am.

Out of ALL the rules the NFHS has come up with this is by far {in my opinion} has to be the dumbest. I understand the reasoning behind it to take the trickery out of the game, but this kills a two minute offense, not to mention your no huddle teams. I know that it gives you a yardage mark to go by, but I cannot agree with it.

In my association, we've been told that if A12 comes in and lines up outside of the 9's to let it go if B sees him and has time to react and adjust.

Re: Re: Motion from outside the 9-yard marks to inside...
 

It is legal as he got inside the 9 yard marks after the ready and before the snap. Just what the rule states.

Also to those who said the fields did not have the 9 yard marks, did they have the yard numbers painted on the field? If so, there is your 9 yard marks at the top of the numbers.

Oh and yes this is an illegal formation foul, not IP or IS.

REPLY: I said this on another board. I might as well say it here too. (Fed only)

If the player is not within the 9-yard marks but <u>does</u> draw coverage, please don't flag it. This should take care of no-huddle, two-minute, run-n-shoot offenses. The purpose of the rule is to cut out the nonsense where a team attempts to use a 'hideout' but <u>not</u> in violation of rule 9-6-4d. A good example: Team runs a pass play. After the down ends, WR comes back toward the LOS but stays close to the sideline while his team huddles. He's not participating in a substitution or even a pretended substitution so NF 9-6-4d can't apply. He just doesn't go to the huddle. Nothing says he has to. But clearly he's acting as a 'sleeper' on the sideline, and is also not making it obvious to the defense that he's part of the game. The principle behind the rule is this: If he comes inside the nine-yard marks, it's now <b>the defense's responsibility</b> to know he's there. Outside the nine-yard marks, it's <b>the offense's responsibility</b> that the defense knows he's there. As long as the defense is aware of him, let it go. "Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you."

I agree with Bob's philosophy and that's the approach my crew is taking.

Ok, got a question. The referee gives the ready for play, all offenceive players are inside the marks. For some reason the coach asks the ref a question the ref calls for a official time out (it lasts about 5 seconds) the ref then gives the ready for play again. The wide-outs are outside the marks. Should they have to get inside the marks before the snap?

This rule has always been there, it is just reworded. Before it was worded that the players had to be within 15 yards of the ball at some poiint before the snap. Now there are marks on the field to help you find the mark and make sure that players are in compliance.

Absolutely...

Don't get carried away on this. MOST IMPORTANT, understand the intent of the rule - to prevent deceptive substitutions. Players lined up, you blow the whistle to snap a helmet (which takes two seconds), you blow the ready and the wideouts don't move back inside the marks - that is technically a foul for illegal formation. Are you really going to flag it?

It's encroachment for a defensive player to be in the neutral zone after the ready for play. You see it 20 times a game, have you ever called it? We pass on a hand in slightly in the neutral zone, a small hold away from the ball, etc.

It's just like the old 15 yard rule, which I've probably called twice in 20+ years, except now it's 9 yards from the sideline. Just keep calling it the same and everyone will be fine.

Somewhere there's a field crew saying, "Coach, I marked it off just like you said, every ninth yard line. Do you want me to do anything with the one yard left over?"

Wiseref, while I agree with you and Bob M in many of your points, I'm not sure this shouldn't be called rather tight. If a team only has 6 on the LOS, they are gaining no advantage, and tricking no one, but I bet you would flag that one every time. Now if that 7th man is close, you may give him the benefit of doubt and talk to him, just as if the player is within a yard of the 9 yard marks you might do the same, but if you let him stand a yard from the sideline every play he is gaining an advantage already by spreading out the defense more. I know he could start inside the marks and go in motion and at the snap by a yard from the sideline, but that is more difficult for him that to be set way out there and looking back at the ball.

I think we use common sense, but must call this if it happens for the most part. I feel it is different than a receiver who while coming to the LOS goes slightly in the NZ and then gets back, or a lineman who has his head slightly inside the NZ. I agree, no flag on those and talk to them, but I am not so sure on the new 9 yard rule. I would give them a little slack, and talk to them so it doesn't happen again, but if they are not close, I think we need a flag. I guarentee you, if you flag them once and they know why, it will NEVER be a problem again.

Bob M and wiseref, I am interested in what you think of my comments.

Sounds like we're close in our thinking. I don't agree about the big advantage. The rule says he has to be inside the marks sometime after the ready - he doesn't have to be inside the 9-yard marks at the snap. So he can line up at the sideline all he wants - thus stretching out the defense anyway. I do agree with the talk-to. The wings really have to communicate with players and coaches this year - then everyone will get used to it and we won't even notice it anymore.

9 yd marks
 

Doesn't the rule state that the player must "momentarily" be between the 9 yd. marks after the RTP and the snap. So if he is in the huddle as the Ref signals RTP and then lines up outside the 9 yd. markings he is legal. Is this correct or I am I missing something.

You are correct. All A players must at some point in time between the RFP and the snap must be between the 9-yard marks. Pretty clear and simple.

You have it right. If he's in the huddle at the ready - no problems.