Juggling Referee gave me an idea when he brought back a meaningless post from 6 years ago. I was bored, so did some looking back in the archives for some posts which got a lot of discussion.

Now some of you were involved in this way back. You can jump in, but don't go back looking for what you said back then or you won't get in the book like the rest of us.

This has been changed somewhat, but same scenario.

A22 advances the ball beyond the NZ and attempts to hand the ball forward to to A75 at A's 30 who cannot handle it. The ball, now on the ground, is picked up by A40 who runs for a TD. What do you have?

Illegal handing ball forward, 5 yards from the point where the ball was handed off and loss of down. 7-3-2 and 3

I'd have to say you have a fumble, and thats all.

Well, and a touchdown....sorry

Woohoo! My silliness stirred meaningful conversation! I feel good today.

My opinion here is that the Canadian Ruling is that we have an offside pass subject to penalty.

Flag the spot of release of the hand-off pass. Since the outcome of the play was in A's favour, B will accept to have downs continue at point of foul, which is where your flag is.

However, it is all based on the covering official's judgement. Once beyond the LS, if such a pass is deemed to be directed forward, then the best the team can do is that spot of release of the directed pass. If the judgement of the official is that it was not directed, and therefore is a fumble, when it's just that: a fumble, and the play results in a TD. Since there was an offside player near the ball carrier, and the BC decided to hand the pass to him, and he "coulnd't handle it", it leads me to believe that the pass was intentional and therefore illegal.

A fumble and a TD.

There is no illegal handing because there was no handing. A75 never had possession of the ball.

2-19-1 Handing......Loss of player possession by unsuccessful execution of attempted handing is a fumble.

No doubt in either NF, or NCAA that we have a fumble. The debate is, do we have a flag for forward handing?????

There is no illegal handing because there was no handing. A75 never had possession of the ball.

Fumble by A22 (beanbag the end of the run :)) No illegal forward handing.

I concur with the majority here - fumble, no flag because the ball wasn't handed. TD counts. (Unless it's NCAA rules and 4th down.)

Just to play devils advocate, what about a illegal forward pass that is incomplete?

Kill the play once the pass hits the ground, 5 yard LOD from spot.

Yep. Illegal forward pass that hits the ground is incomplete but an illegal kick is treated like a fumble.

The originial play is a touchdown. It is not illegal handing unless the second player actually gets the ball.

No possession=no flag.

Now, what if he completes the handoff. A75 then illegally kicked the ball and in an effort to prevent another player to pick it up, A17 then illegally bats the ball.

Anyone carry that many flags?!?

It's good we all agree no possession mean no flag.

I've got 2 flags, 1 hat, and then I start stripping down to my scibees and tossing them as needed. Hopefully I still have something on my body at the end of the play. :)