If I say our association, Suffolk County (NY) and our brethren in the next county of Nassau, are the only two associations that work all their regular season games using only four officials, how wrong would I be?

What other associations are working varsity with just four officials?

I believe we go 5 on all our varsity games, but there may be some four games, but only because of # of officials. I think if we had enough we'd go 6-man.

Louisiana:

Class 1-2: 4-man crews
Class 3-4-5: 5-man crewws
Qtrfinals - Finals: 6-man crews

Up here in Hamilton, all high school games are officiated with a 4-man crew except the finals which use 6.

Section IX and some of Section I.

That means in NY sections VIII, IX and XI and some of I are the only ones going with four?

Does IX go to five for playoffs?

That's pretty shocking to me that Long Island schools won't spring for 5 guys. It can't be a money issue, can it?

I was just in Merrick and Oceanside last month - it aint cheap. It seems like Long Island has become a extension of NYC price-wise.

Every time I go to LI, they seem to have squeezed more people in there. Yikes, it's crowded.

By the way, Sections IV, V and VI are 5 man (unless there are leagues within them I don't know about who are still going with four).

In Texas we use 5 man crews for varsity and 4 man crews for jr. high and sub-varsity. For 6 player football we use 4 man crews for all levels. With the growing number of teams that are starting to run a spread offense it is almost impossible to cover the field with only 4. It is even difficult to cover it with just 5.

Kansas
 

Many if not most leagues at all levels (6A down to 8-man) have allowed or required 5-man crews. There are still some out there that do only pay for 4 or will allow 4-man crews to work. In the playoffs 5-man crews are required for 6A down to 3A this next season. 2A and 8-man only use 4-man crews in the playoff even when they used 5-man all season.

Here in Kitchener-Waterloo, an hour's north of Hamilton, we use 4 on all high school games, with some games using 5 to train a new official. The person who is the 5th is usually a vet who does not receive a game fee. This is one way to contribute back to the association. On some HS games, we use 6 as a training ground for 6-person mechanics (with 2 officials, and maybe a good 3rd official, learning the 6-person mechanics). On HS semis, we use 5 vets (4 paid, 1 volunteer) and 6 (all paid) for finals.

yes. Makes it rough on a B who might be doing his first game downfield. In the past, you wouldn't believe who they used to put there.. Right!, an "R". More recently they have been using wings as they are more conditioned to be able to recoginze and call the various flavors of PI and handle scrimmage kicks downfield.

It *IS* a $$$ issue here.

What's the per man fee? If it's ~75, that's an extra $300 for 4 home games to added to a multi-million dollar annual school budget. That's a couple mileage reimbursements for some administrators to go to some fluff conference!

B does take some getting used to, that's for sure.

REPLY: Here in NJ, it's pretty much standard 5-man for varsity; 4-man for sub-v. We even stay with 5 for the playoffs. I know some states have gone to 6 (or even 7) for the playoffs.


That's why it's strange that they'd put an R back there. It's a whole different ballgame when it's coming at you rather than going away from you!

We need officials.
 

We are doing 5 man for JV and 7 man for varsity. Most other associations in the state are using 4 or 5 man for JV and 5 man for varsity.

I do prefer working 5 man especially in set crews when you have 5 guys who love working together... 7 man is great for the play-offs.

The main issue is recruiting and retaining qualified officials. I don't understand how schools can use the budget argument when officials are such a small percentage of the total as AB mentioned.

Our association last season had to cover 2 JV and 2 V games per week, including timers and chain crews. But now the same number of officials (about 25) will have to cover 3 JV and 3 V games per week. There will be Friday and Saturday games which should help somewhat.

But the problem I see is recruitment and retention.

Nebraska: For varsity (for the most part) 5-man crews. Some schools (especially at the 8-man level) might use 4-man crews still. Sub-varsity is usually 4-man crews for JV games (at most places) and 3-man below that. Playoffs are all 5-man crews.

Iowa: Speaking varsity only, it's pretty much 5-man all over, although there are a few schools who go 4-man crew. Playoffs are all 5-man crews.

As Bob M. mentioned we do 5 here for varsity in NJ. It's really unfortunate because I have a friend who just attended a college clinic this week and he had the opportunity to work in a 7-man crew with NFL and College officials giving him a critique. For those of us looking to move on to the college ranks it would be of great benefit to work in 6-man crews. The gentelman who got to work these scrimmages said most of the critiques were that "high school officials move TO MUCH" and it's a habit that's easy to get into because with 5-man you have to move that much more to ensure proper coverage.

I'd be willing to have the 5-man pay cut 6 ways but I know it wouldn't be a welcome suggestion by some people.

I would imagine a high school official who's used to working a 6-man crew have an advantage over someone whose only done 5-man when working scrimmages for the scouts. Would you college guys tend to agree with that? Is it all that different?

Ed,

In Section I, Rockland Cty. generally uses 5. The rest uses 5 at the request of the home team. We actively recruit schools to use 5 and now have almost half of them. We got the concession in our last contract that if a school asked for additional officials all would get a full fee. We are working very hard at converting some of the old stalwarts who think that 25% more officials means 25% more flags. Hopefully we will be there soon. We now use 5 in all playoff games.

In Sacramento, Ca. we use five man crews for all soph and varsity games. A few small religious schools will use four man crews. We use all five man crews when playoffs start.

We work 4 or 5, depending upon what the school is willing to pay for. Most are now 5. (from ND)

Good point Maxbk. I was thinking that as well. The continuity would be so much greater if you had 6 all the time and not just playoff time. Good habits form, the games have greater coverage, and you are much better prepared to advance. But, hey, at least we have 5 and not stuck with 4.

Just a thought.
 

I would prefer to work 10 games on a 5 man crew with the same guys all season, especially if we have a great rapport and chemistry.

I just don't like to work 7 man with a different crew every week.

REPLY: Joe...don't know about South Jersey, but we could never field enough crews to cover our games if we moved to six-man crews. Barely have enough to cover 5-man crews.

In Iowa, 5 man for Varsity, 4 man for JV, and either 3 or 4 man for MS.

Section II is four-man for all regular season varsity games, and five for playoffs. There were some individual schools that were willing to pay for five officials, but the section put the kibosh on that midway through this last season when it became clear that the contract dispute Section II is having with its officials in nearly EVERY sport was going to become a protracted pissing match in which the section wasn't overly likely to get what it wanted.

Oregon
 

Unfortunatly, our OSAA Handbook still states that four officials are required for varsity football contests. (That printed word thing)
Fortunatly, most officials associations have worked with their conferences on a local level and are providing 5 officials for most 4A football games. Some conferences work 5 for ALL varsity contests regardless of the levels.
Unfortunatly, the 4A Portland Interscholastic League continues to use poverty as an excuse and will not pay for more than 4 officials.
Fortunatly, the Portland Interscholastic League is the ONLY 4A league in the state that holds firm on this issue.

So to compliment our "official" title of <b>lowest paid football officials in the nation</b> <i> (confirmed by 11/04 Referee Magazine spreadsheet),</i> we are still working some 4A varsity football games with 4.

Varsity - Some 4, Mostly 5
Junior Varsity - 3, 4, or 5
Lower levels - 3 or 4

Chicken, egg and contract. Not enough good officials. How come those football guys make so much.

Quote:

I was just in Merrick and Oceanside last month - it aint cheap. It seems like Long Island has become a extension of NYC price-wise. Every time I go to LI, they seem to have squeezed more people in there. Yikes, it's crowded.

Next time you are in Merrick, stop by my house. I can't think of anywhere else in the nation where .2 acre "in the burbs" would cost you 1/2 million dollars but Long Island. Just saw a 1/4 acre lot where they built three houses.

Quote:

By the way, Sections IV, V and VI are 5 man (unless there are leagues within them I don't know about who are still going with four).

Have to think coaches are going to clinics and reading about complicated passing offenses. Then, putting them into their playbook. Take a coach who has been coaching football for 10 years and I bet his offensive scheme has become more complicated. Yet, if there are still four officials on the field the officiating has not been able to keep up.

Georgia.
My association uses 4 man jv and below, 5-6 man for varsity, always 6 for playoffs. We have also used 7 on some occations (mostly preseason for training purposes).

My wife is originally from Merrick and her cousin lives now in Oceanside - was there for a Bar Mitzvah. I can only tell the difference in the towns by the name on the LI RR station as I drive by on Sunrise Highway!

You're in Merrick? She grew up on Loines Ave. (As my father in law says - "When Long Island was farmland")

Guess I never thought about it but it is true, every town has a stop on Sunrise Highway.

Loines is about three blocks north of the RR station. There is a funeral home on the corner. I'm a quarter mile south of the RR station on what used to be swamp land.

I can think of a half dozen places around DFW, most of which are within a few minutes drive of here.

REPLY: Ed...Come on across the Hudson to the Garden State and I can show you a number of places where $500K is pretty much the norm for a quarter acre house.

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Excuse me.

Wrong football!!

Here in the Tidewater Virginia area we use 6 man crews for all Varsity games 5 man crews for JV and 4 man for Jr High
In the playoffs we use 7 man crews

central coast section, Ca.5 man for all high school, if we use 4 for say a frosh game, 5 man pay is divided up for the 4 of us.all set crews, although we sometimes will fill in on other crews

yessir, 5 man crews in Iowa varsity for the most part. Larger schools went first and the smaller schools followed along rather quickly. Fees ranged from $55 to $70, or was that the average speed limit we drove to the game? Or both? Most were in the mids 60s. Most j-high is three man crew and of course the missing man is on the visitors sideline because they leave the chains on the home side.

We're just happy to have someone who will run the clock and keep it moving. I've kicked more kids out of the timer's area than I have outta the game!

In Denmark all games at 5-man games.. Every club provides 10 officials (often players, coaches etc.) these officiate in the lover levels.

There are a group of officials with out any club relations (plus a few with club relations) these are also the best in Denmark. The best league is officiated by these peoples (abut 30 people) Friday night games are 7 man crews an the other games is 5 man. All finals are 7 man games.


We have a example of one of the best officials in denmark is also the QB of the danish champions. he can work a game one day as a LJ an the next day he is playning QB with the crew from the night before officiating the game.