I would like to gage the reaction of those who work mostly in five man crews. I propose a redistribution of duties during a play.

1. The Line Judge should count the offense.

2. The Line Judge should be responsible for counting seven on the line.

3. The Linesman should count the defense.

The reasons for these changes should be apparanbt to those who've worked these positions.


Anyone disagree? Feel free to propose any other changes that you think would improve crew efficiency.

Both wings should share responsibility for counting 7 on the line. If not 7, BOTH flags should go up.

Counting prior to the snap
 

Counting

I have found that I feel the most confortable utilizing the following method:
<b>R and U count the offense</b> and the R holds the "I've got eleven" signal <b>until the snap.</b>
<b>Land H count the defense <u>and the offensive backfield.</u></b> If then, their are 4 or less in the offensive backfield and the R is still holding the "I've go eleven" signal, the crew has confirmed mathamatically <b>we have a legal formation.</b>
The B counts the D.

I have found this procedure to be much more effective than depending on either wing official to consistantly count seven players on the offensive line as it is too easy to get strait lined and/or have smaller players blocked out by wide-bodies.
Restated, <b>the method I described above has proven to be quite effective and fool-proof </b>as it is much easier for the wings to count to 4 with an unobstructed view, raher than it to expect the wing men to consitantly attempt to count to 7 with a constantly obstructed view.
FYI - for four man mechanics, the method is exactly the same (less the B) creating consistant crew mechanics.

[Edited by KWH on Apr 28th, 2005 at 12:49 AM]

I agree with the wings counting 4 in the backfield. They also have the angle for the slot backs to see if they are on or off. Just be careful that you have 11 players. You can have 4 in the backfield and have only 6 on the line and it looks good (if you use the 4 in the backfield as the criterion for 7 on the line).

Not to worry, as mentioned above, the R and the U are responsible for counting 11 offensive players! If everybody does their job, the mechanic is pretty much fool proof!

We have the R and U count A, LJ and BJ counts B. Both LJ and L counts men on line (by counting backs).

If the R and U has less than 11, they signal this fact and keep signalling until the snap so the wings can pick it up. R often gives the closest wing a little shout to alert him as well.

I'd like to clarify my statement. Both wings are responsible for arriving at the conclusion that Team A has the proper number of players on the line of scrimmage. How they get there is in not a big matter.

I'm in agreement with those who say that the wings should count four in the backfield and rely upon the signal from the R that he has counted 11 on the field. 11 - 4 = 7

The wings count the team whose sideline they are on. The Back Judge counts the defense, the R and U count the offense. As for the amount of players on the line. Both wings are only responsible for the players on their side of the snapper. If both wings count 3 players on their side on the line then that's 6 plus the snapper is 7. We just signal to the other wing how many we got and then add the two together plus the snapper.

It's all in fun
 

When I began officiating I was in Texas, (1979-1982), and wing men counted their sidelines and utilized the method JasonTX has descibed above.
When I left Texas I discovered there was an entirely different brand of football being played everywhere else <i>(except Massacusetts)</i> in the United States and Canada. I discovered that this other brand of football had its own set of rules and its own set of mechanics. Some or the differences made sense, and the ones that did not were however easier to learn and enforce as they lack (and still do) an infinite number of exceptions to rules.
Texas does things their own way, always have and always will. They may have worked under six flags, but they only know one set of football rules and mechanics. That's not a bad thing, rather it is merely stating a known facts. <i>(But you juss kint beet, mesquite barbaqued brisket)</i>

The only important thing is for all crews to take responsibility for <b>counting both teams</b> and <b>check the offensive formation</b> on <b>every play</b>.

REPLY: Our procedure:
1. R and U count offense. Each official holds the fist ("I got eleven") until the other echos it. Note: This count is usually taking place while A is in the huddle or as they are breaking it coming to the line. So, A is counted before they take their positions in the formation.
2. B counts the defense--again, while A is in the huddle.
3. Wings count team to their sideline.
4. B and wing responsible for the defense echo the fist.
5. Using R's signal, L and H count the backfield to determine whether A has seven on the line.
6. If either A or B has less than 11, B, R, and U hold that signal (two open hands on chest) until the snap.

For the reason KWH cited ("straight-lining"), I'm uncomfortable with moving primary responsibility for counting players to the wings.

I am suprised at how many of the posts do not follow the book. The book (NFHS) says the linesman counts A. What other mechanics do you guys ignore and substitute with your own?

NF 5-man: Running play: page 62 L and LJ count B players..
How old is your book?

I can only wish for five officials!
 

No matter how many officials you have R and U should work together to count the offense because U is looking directly at the offense and waiting to count his 5 players numbered from 50 to 79. R is in the offensive backfield and has the best view of the offense pre-snap, plus, must maintain the proper number of players in the huddle.

If I only had that fifth official, my back judge would count the defense as he has the best view with HL and LJ confirming.

As the R I have my U give a thumbs up signal for 11 and thumbs down for less than. He is also empowered to flag too many in the huddle. I give him the thumbs up if I count 11 or down for 10.

As the R I depend on my wings to signal on or off the line. That lets me as the R know who is in the backfield and it is a simple matter to count to four.

If I only had that fifth official!