No this isn't a news story about using an automatic defibrulator on an auto mechanic. :D

With the NF rule change this year disallowing a 2nd forward pass during a down, will this bring back the mechanic of punching backwards for a backward pass? I know some crews got rid of the mechanic believing that a whistle/no whistle served the purpose of determining if a grounded pass was fowards or backwards (from behind the line).

What do the college officials do?

At one time it was considered semi-useful, but it's not or is rarely used anymore.
We don't use in in the ECAC at least not by any members of three chapters I've worked with.

NAIA (GPAC conference) guys I have observed do not punch, just have a whistle or no whistle.

my 2 cents worth....
 

So with NO "punch back" then the wings will do the flagging if the first pass is foward, then a second one is thrown forward. Seems like the mechanic should be revived, if only for the crew to know. Communication is key here. As the WH I might not be able to make the determination of the fwd/bkwd pass.

play: A12 takes snap from center, rolls to his right. Stops and throws back across field to A 82 who is awaiting the pass. He then turns and throws a pass to A88 who is 15 yds down field. I would hate to throw my flag if the wing is syaing to the coah is was bkwds. Seems a little communication would be vital to keeping the game good. Also, the wing on the other side of the field would be telling his coach the pass was______ based upon the signal. We use in in NF games now, and will comtinue to use it if for nothing else but so that we know.

I guess I don't really see the harm in the "punch back" mechanic. It doesn't look bad at all if done crisply, and some communication amongst officials can't hurt.

We have done the whistle/no whistle thing, but with the rule change, I think it would be effective to 'reinstate' the punch back, particularly on passes that are caught.

Who did away with the punch back on a backward pass?

Not only are you able to communicate with the crew, especially R, but you are also able to communicate with the coaching staff. For example, A at A's 10 yard line throws a backward pass. Letting A's coach know what you saw merely by giving a signal saves a lot of grief on the sideline.

I too, did not know that this mechanic had been "deleted". I have seen coaches yell at their players to get on the loose ball because they saw the wing official punching backwards. So this certainly tells me that it certainly does help coaches. But mainly, it helps the officials better communicate within themselves. Especially the WH, who (as mentioned earler), does not know if the pass was backwards or forward.

Serg

i agree. we still use this mechnic in georgia. now it will be more important with the new rule.

Why does this change if you "punch" or not. I still think not signaling either way is best. If it is forward, you have a whistle, if backwards, no whistle. Anyone who knows it was forward can blow the whistle, but if no one blows it, the ball remains live. Depending on the play, whether it is a rollout, quick WR screen, or scrambling throw, it could be anyone of 4 officials who have the best view. If you go this route, and don't worry about a "punch", no one will ever be punching back while another official blows his whistle cuz he thought it was forward. That is when things can really get ugly!

PSU13, why would it be important to punch back "particularly on passes that are caught"????

My 2 cents
 

MJT-
Until now, it was of no significance if a <b> caught</b> pass was forward or backward because, after catching <b>any</b> pass, an A player had the option of throwing a forward pass (as long as it originated behind the line.)
Now, only after catching a <b>backward pass,</b> does the A player have the option of throwing a forward pass. <b>Effective immediatly, <u>the officials now have the added responsibility</u> of determining if two forward passes were throw during a down.</b>
In my humble opinion, a whistle/no whistle works just fine <b>for incomplete passes,</b> but it is <b>completed passes</b> that now must be addressed!!! However this added responsibility is handeled is probably best decided on the local level for now, <b> but it sure as hell better be discussed in your pregame! </b> Five guys standing in the middle of the field all saying <b>"I dunno"</b> after a unusual touchdown play, <u>ain't gonna cut the mustard!!!</u>




[Edited by KWH on Feb 15th, 2005 at 05:03 PM]

Re: My 2 cents
 

So you saw the Central Catholic/Newberg game, huh?

Re: My 2 cents
 

I see your point on the caught pass. I wasn't thinking along the lines of the 2nd pass. I have no idea where my brain was, as the 2nd pass part was discussed in the original question. I do think however that you could just have a flag/no flag on the 2nd pass, which would take care of the problem.

CC / Newberg???
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob Mc

Quote:

So you saw the Central Catholic/Newberg game, huh?

Well now I know who Bob Mc is...
No, I did not see the CC/Newberg as I was working (Lakeridge @ Tigard) that night. I don't recall hearing anything negative about that game. Wasn't that a crew from your association? Were you on the game? Is this the game you guys had at PGE Park that you e-mailed me about were the locker room was? Bring me up to speed Bob.
If necessary, e-mail me the info...