3rd and 8 at A's 30. A is in shotgun formation. The snapper misfires the snap (drops it and the snap hits the ground) and reaching between his legs bats the ball backwards. A32 picks up the ball and runs to the A 38 where he is tackled. On the tackle there is a PF face mask on B. B is also guilty of pileing on after the ball is dead.

[Edited by Bob Mc on Dec 22nd, 2004 at 02:30 PM]

Well it seems that we are starting with an illegal snap if the ball didn't hit the ground. If that is the case then the play should be blown dead at that point.

2-38-2 The snap begins when the snapper first moves the ball legally other than in adjustment. In a snap, the movement must be a quick and continuous backward motion of the ball during which the ball immediately leaves the hand(s) of the snapper and touches a back or the ground before it touches an A lineman.

If it was a legal snap then we look at the batting. This seems illegal under

9-7-2 No player shall bat a loose ball other than a pass or a fumble in flight, or a low scrimmage kick in flight which he is attempting to block in or behind the expanded neutral zone.

So then B commits a face mask and then there is a dead-ball foul on B. So there are offsetting fouls, IB and PF FM, on the play. Mark off the DB PF on B and it will be A's ball 1-10 on A 45.

If this play is allowed to proceed after the illegal snap then you have just the illegal snap and then a couple of DB PF.

A snap must immediately leave the hand(s) of the snapper and touch the ground or a back before it touches an A lineman. So far so good in my opinion.

A then bats the ball, B facemasks, B dead ball piles on. Double foul, enforce the B PF, 1/10 from the A 45.

I think I'm blowing it dead with the screwy snap. Only bad things can happen otherwise.

Opps clarification. The snap has touched the ground prior to the bat.

Opie, that is not justified by rule. If you have a legal snap the, and this appears to be, then no matter how "screwy" it looks the play must go through.
Otherwise what you have done is committed an IW.
The "bd things"are one of the reasons we are out there. To sort them out after the play.

Canadian Ruling
 

Illegal procedure. 5 yards, down repeated. (4-2-1, 8-1-3, 8-2-2)

NCAA: the bat is legal.
All I see is a face mask foul against team-B followed by enforcement of team-B's dead ball foul.

I agree. "Bad things" are not a justification in and of themselves for killing a play IMHO.

Under Fed rules kdf5 has it correct in my opinion. The snap was completely legal. Warrenkicker put up the definition as it is in the book. The post said the snapper puts his hands between his legs to bat the ball backwards. So to put the ball between his legs the original motion had to have been backward. Now the piece that's in the rule book under the definition (article) that warrenkicker pointed out is that a "snap ends when the ball touches the ground or any player." So, the snap started and ended legally by definition. Therefore you have the ruling kdf5 pointed out...double foul followed by DB foul.

Depends on the legality of the snap.
 

Assuming the snap was legal: one continuous motion and the ball immediately leaves the snapper's hand(s) and touches a backfield A player or the ground before it touches a team A lineman.

Then under NFHS rules there should be an illegal bat by the snapper and a live ball face mask by B. Followed by the dead-ball foul by B. Double foul, replay the down from the previous spot after enforcement of B's dead-ball foul. A's ball 1st and 10 from B's 15 yard line.

Just curious: if the snap was misfired intentionally by the snapper, would you also have a planned loose ball infraction by A on this play?