Seems a bit slow. Let's see if this works...

Just wondering - how many of you have seen some of the rulebook rarities, such as a free kick after an awarded fair catch? Or, rarer still, a team that was just scored upon choosing to kick the ball instead of receiving?

I bet now a single coach knows if they were just scored on, that they could kick off. If they did it, that would be there last game they coached.

Had a free kick after a fair catch this year. Team that did it was leading 55-6 at the time and there was just over a minute left in the game. They said afterwards that they just wanted to "practice it".

They had to practice sanding in a line while one kid tried an unmolested kick? Luckily, he shanked it badly.

In a sophomore game this year A was kicking a try. The noseguard was on all fours at the snap and never moved. The linebacker came running up, lept onto the back of the NG then into the air and over the LOS to try and block the kick. The boys did it on their own, their coach knew nothing of it. It was pure luck that I got the signal right.

Had a field goal from a free kick after a fair catch a few years back...high punt from the end zone came down to R at about the 25 or so...the team that kicked the field goal was down by two points at the time with about 20 seconds on the clock.

You just called a personal foul, correct? 9-4-2e

I did. I had no clue but needed to give some signal and gave that one. After, I thought it should have been an UC, but looked it up and had gotten it right.

I'm not sure how many coaches are aware that they can choose to kick after being score upon. I do think this might be a good option if a team just scored to bring themselves within a TD with very little time left on the clock. Instead of receiving and risking the opponents recovering an onsides kick at midfield, kick it deep and let them take their Hail Mary from 70 yards away instead of 45 or 50.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kdf5

Quote:

...I thought it should have been an UC, but looked it up and had gotten it right.

kdf5 -
Remember UC <u>are always</u> <b>non-contact fouls,</b>
while,
PF's <u>are</u> <i>(almost*)</i> <u>always</u> contact fouls

<i>* the exceptions are is a swing and a miss, a kick and a miss, or a knee and a miss. While these acts did not actually involve contact, they are considered PF's</i>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KWH

Quote:

Originally posted by kdf5 Quote: ...I thought it should have been an UC, but looked it up and had gotten it right. kdf5 - Remember UC <u>are always</u> <b>non-contact fouls,</b> while, PF's <u>are</u> <i>(almost*)</i> <u>always</u> contact fouls <i>* the exceptions are is a swing and a miss, a kick and a miss, or a knee and a miss. While these acts did not actually involve contact, they are considered PF's</i>

I agree with you, but how many PF's are against your teammate, which is the case here?

[Edited by kdf5 on Dec 8th, 2004 at 04:53 PM]

That is an interesting thought.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KWH

Quote:

Originally posted by kdf5 Quote: ...I thought it should have been an UC, but looked it up and had gotten it right. kdf5 - Remember UC <u>are always</u> <b>non-contact fouls,</b> while, PF's <u>are</u> <i>(almost*)</i> <u>always</u> contact fouls <i>* the exceptions are is a swing and a miss, a kick and a miss, or a knee and a miss. While these acts did not actually involve contact, they are considered PF's</i>

As for the exceptions, they are meant to invovle contact.

And as for the issue of the USC, more important than the signals that involve the "jumping off" a teammate, USC (and specifically multiple USC's) have consequences, and the enforcement for a PF and for a USC are very different.

In NCAA, the correct signal actually is the unsportsmanlike conduct signal. 15 yards, previous spot.

Penalized as a live ball foul, of course. If somebody climbs up on a teammates back before the snap, than it is a dead ball foul.

Edit: NOT an automatic first down. USC's never are.

Nice..... Canadian rules?

Saw a free kick after a fair catch in a state championship game last year.

Nope - Federation rules. Field goal can be scored from free kick after a fair catch or awarded fair catch. 8-4-1(a)

It was a team from Washington State that came up who did this. Even though we play federation ball at the highschool level here most coaches wouldn't think of doing something like that so, of course, the local coach blew a gasket. He had his rulebook out and was waving the stupid thing around like it was flag day. heh.


while I'm thinking about it

(to avoid having to read back through the thread - free kick after fair catch on opponent's 25 - clearly field goal attempt)

For you guys whose mechanics haven't been polluted by Canadian ball - what crew mechanics would you use on a 4 man crew? How about a five man crew? I wasn't on the game but if I recall correctly the WH was deep between the posts, U was on the goal line and they put the side guys in their regular spots.

[Edited by cdnRef on Dec 9th, 2004 at 01:39 PM]

Doesn't surprise me, some of the coaches we have had come down to Seattle have been even worse on rules than someof ours.
BYW, recent survey shows only 56% of US citizens know the first phrase of the Star Spangled Banner, but only 37% of Canadians know the first phrase of Oh Canada....... it is of course "Oh Canada"

REPLY: And don't forget the old 'hiding-the-ball-under-your-jersey' and hurdling personal fouls.

I think you got it right. You'd like up like you would for a free kick with the exception being that the R has the uprights.

It's a real shame that you seem to think that Canadian rules/mechanics, etc... the Canadian game pollutes people.

It's you that is missing out. I am sorry if you've had an experience otherwise.

I don't think I'm missing anything :) Oh my poor tortured soul...misunderstood :)

Canadian rules and mechanics pollute one's ability to do NFHS rules and mechanics - the opposite is true as well (federation ball pollutes my Canadian applications).

4-man kickoff mechanics in Canadian put the referee at the kicking line and the umpire at the restraining line. American mechanics put the referee deeper than the umpire deep and have the line judge and the head linesman (wingman and lineman) on the kicking and restraing line respectively. When I step out onto a field it takes a second to remember what I'm doing.

Blocking below the waist is allowed in Canadian ball but restricted outside the free blocking zone in NFHS ball - you have no idea how many low blocks I've let go in NFHS ball - and nasty ones that plainly should have been flagged.

Penalty application is some other kind of mess too with the all but one principle in American ball but the convoluted collection of rules and exceptions in Canadian ball.

OC (objectionable conduct) in Canadian is 10 yards, USC is 15...switch from one to the other in the same day and see how many illegal forward handing fouls get marched up 10 yards from the line of scrimmage.... (illegal forward handing and OC share the signal between American and Canadian ball).

The two games pollute each other from the official's point of view. It's hard to switch between the two. I had an inelgible downfield in the provincial JV final this year and I ended up signalling first touching ... the coaches and the rest of the crew didn't have the foggiest clue what I was doing ... this while in BC Place with the big screen on me. Now that I think of it, the inelgible touched the pass ... it should have been OPI and loss of down. Oh well, the right team won and I'm not going back to replay that one.

I appreciate each game on its merits and enjoy working both sports. I prefer the Canadian game, frankly, but this board is predominantly occupied by American officials and I have the single objective of making my American game better for the benefit of the kids.

As a final thought - I'm a better American official than a Canadian official. Why? I had to learn the American game. I grew up playing the Canadian game and so there are a lot of things I "think" I know about Canadian but end up having to relearn.

If I give the impression that I don't like the Canadian game or find one game inferior to another it's entirely unintentional. I have aspirations to be considered for pro ball (CFL, only one Canadian has ever gone as far as NCAA AFAIK) one day but along the way I've got a lot of learning to do. The experience of the officials on this board and the officials around us is the best learning tool that we have; however, when in Rome...do as the Romans. Where's my loincloth?? :D

The NF mechanic is, R behind upright, U behind upright and he rules on crossbar, both decide if kick is good, and all other officials are same as KO.

Right. I forgot to move the U under the crossbar.

With free kick after a fair catch, do you mean a drop kick? Where the player kicks the ball after is bounces once off the ground.

Technically they could drop kick, but I don't think anyone would.
In case you are not really asking that, and do not understand a "free kick after fair catch" this is a difference between NF and NCAA. In NF after a FC rule 6-5-4 states "The captain may choose to free kick or snap anywhere between the inbounds line on the yard line through the spot of the FC is made or thru the spot of interference, when a FC is awarded. These choices remain if a DB foul coccurs prior to the down, or a foul or any IW occurs during the down and the down is repeated."