Hi friends, newbie here.I have a question about enforcing penalty when penalty is past line to gain. 2ND and 10 ,run play,handoff to A1 ,gains 40 yds. Flag is thrown for holding near the end of run. Flag is spot of foul,mark back ten yards,ball is still 25 yards beyond l to g .Is it a first down even on a penalty? (high school)What about a block behind the back in same situation.The more I read my book the more confused I get.

If after enforcement, the ball is still beyond the line to gain, it's a 1st down.

It doesn't matter what the foul is.

Enforce the penalty as you should, and if they are beyond the LTG (line to gain), it would be 1st down. If you remember that, you'll be fine.

Hmmm, I thought that was what I said.

Unless it's a dead ball foul before the RFP -- then you'll determine whether it's a first down before marking off the penalty. Then step off the penalty and THEN set the chains.

And I know this has nothing to do with the original poster's play :)

After considering all live ball fouls if the ball is beyond the line ot gain it is a first down. A block in the back would be enforced the same way.

Not sure where your confusion arises. Please cite the rule that you are confused about.

Canadian Ruling
 

Holding after yards were gained is 10 yards from the point where the ball was at the time the holding was initiated, 1D/10.

I guess since everyone else is repeating my answer, I'll repeat it too. :D

If after enforcement, the ball is still beyond the line to gain, it's a 1st down.

It doesn't matter what the foul is.

After you mark off the penalty, if the ball is beyond the line to gain then you have a first down.

If you have a foul where enforcement is from the succeeding spot (i.e. unsportsmanlike) then it's a first down after penalty enforcement even if enforcement takes the ball back between or behind the chains. Example: 2nd/8 from the 40, A runs to the 49, USC occurs, then mark off 15 from 49 (back to the 34) which goes behind the original line to gain, set the chains and 1st/10 A's 34.



[Edited by kdf5 on Nov 2nd, 2004 at 07:55 AM]

:)

Too many Type A personalities around here. ;)

I think now I am going with your answer. :D

That is unless you want a first and -15. ;)

No -everyone is wrong. If the ball is across the line to gain after penalties are marched off, you have a first down.

;)

But I thought if the ball is beyond the line to gain after the penalties are walked off then you would have a first down?

Nope... if the ball is beyond the line to gain after the penalties are walked off then you would have a first down.

How can all of you be wromg! It is a first down!

Who's on first?

Got me thinking
 

What if the ball is ACROSS the line to gain after penalty enforcement?

Seef

Re: Got me thinking
 

First down!!

Hey, You guys must do it differently. Over here we march off penalties never walk them. :p

Re: Got me thinking
 

Is "ACROSS" the same thing as beyond... if it is, I believe it would be a first down

Back to the beginning.

5-2-5b
. . . Following a foul, a series of downs ends when:

b. Acceptance or declination of any penalty leaves A in possession beyond the line-to- gain.

When a live ball foul occurs you consider the enforcement spot and penalize from that spot. If the ball ends up beyond the line to gain you can award a first down. If not, it is a replay of the down, that is, if the foul does not allow a replay.

If a foul occurs that is enforced as a dead ball, that would include a USC foul, it would be enforced from the succeeding spot not the spot where the foul occurred.

That is why it is important to distinguish personal fouls from USCs. A player striking a player is a personal foul not a USC. The enforcement spot would be different.

For those who remember Halloween Night in Georgia last year the confusion there was a live ball foul was committed during a run. But the officiating crew enforced it from the succeeding spot like an unsportsmanlike conduct.