Will you please discuss the ruling on this play...

4th down and 10. The blue team punts the football, but the
black team has a good rush and blocks(deflects) the punt. The football goes straight up in the air and about 10 yards
down field. As the ball is on its way down it hits a player
on the black team on the top of the helmet and shoots down
field even more about 15 yards more. Now the blue team falls
on and recovers the football. Whose football is it blue team
or black team.
Questions: Does it matter where the ball hit the player helmets behind the line of scrimmage or past the line of
scrimmage???
Does it matter if the blue team recoved the ball past the 1st down marker???
This play did happen and I have not found a good ruling yet.....Thanks...

A blocked punt is a live ball and either K or R can recover is my initial thought. (Although I am opened to be overruled on this one.)

In the rule book, look at rule 6.2 art 3,4,5,6. Casebook play 6.2.3 is as close to the situation you described.

I'm not sure the orignator has a case book to look at.

no I don't
 

I don't have a book to look at.
I would like to hear a ruling on the play and why is the
ruling that way??? Thanks

The touching by R (the block) in or behind the LOS is ignored. The touch downfield by black is a muff and blue can recover. So in your play, it would be 1st and 10 for blue at the spot of recovery. It doesn't matter where the 1st down marker is because because R muffed the punt.

I think it does matter where the ball was touched by R. If it not contacted beyond the neutral zone, then K has to recover AND advance beyond their line to gain to keep the ball. If the ball is muffed beyond the neutral zone, then K can recover, but may not advance.

Sorry, I had another thing to add. That is the reason the Linesman's job on a punt is to make sure the ball crosses the neutral zone. And on your play, if the ball was muffed beyond the neutral zone by R, then recovery by K is a first down no matter where the recovery was.

Correction on definitions...the contact with the ball by the Receiving team downfield is NOT a muff, but rather a "touch." Either way K keeps the ball but may not advance.

why
 

Why does kicking team get the ball?????
I still don't understand it that good, we have a couple
of different opinions....
Where does a MUFF come in to play...The ball hit on top of
the player's helmet, he was not trying to catch it he
never even seen the ball. The punter did not muff the punt
the punt was blocked....
I would like to have a better understanding of the ruling
and why???? Thanks again Baker

I muff doesn't require intent, but in this case, it's not a muff anyway, it's a touch. But K can recover in either case.

Re: why
 

Just because the Black team (R) blocked the kick by the Blue team (K) doesn't change what can happen after. If the ball hits or is touched by R, through no fault of K, beyond the line-of-scrimmage and it wasn't a low punt being blocked by an R player within 2 yards of the LOS then K can recover the kick for a first down but can't advance the ball.

Just so I don't get confused, black is R and blue is K.

I don't have my rulebook on me, so I can't give exact rule references. Anytime the receivers touch the kick "downfield" (assuming K did not cause the touch or touch the ball first downfield themselves), it will be first down for whichever team is in possession at the end of the down.

If the receivers touch the ball behind the line of scrimmage (or even if they don't touch it for that matter), K must recover the ball behind the LOS and advance it beyond the line to gain in order to get a first down. So it short, yes, it does matter where it touches an R player.

[Edited by PSU213 on Oct 21st, 2004 at 12:11 AM]

I had a similar situation
 

We had R deflect a line drive kick last night, and K caught the ball and advanced. The R coach was livid. I informed him that a scrimmage kick touched behind the LOS can be advanced by either R or K. He maintained that the K team caught the touched ball beyond the LOS. I told him that is irrelevant. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

By the way, K shy of the Line-to-gain by about 1 foot after the advanced, botched punt, which was a relief to this Umpire!

2ndYrUmp

Re: I had a similar situation
 

It's not where either team touches the ball that matters. The only way K can advance a kick (blocked or otherwise) is if they cath or recover it behind the neutral zone. It is THIS spot that matters.