Gentlemen,

As an Umpire, what kind of help, if any should I give the wings on goal-line play? If I'm watching tackle to tackle play, and the run comes up the gut, can I assist the wings in determining ball location with relation to the goal line as the runner attempts to blast through the pile?

I was faced with this in a JV game last night when, on a 2nd and goal the runner came through, and broke the plane with the ball. I did nothing since it is the wing's call. both wings had him short of GL. The LJ saw the runner's knee down short, but what is the best way, as a crew, to determine which occurred first: knee down, or ball breaking the plane? If the wings can't see ball through the pile of bodies, should my angle I enter into the call?

2nd Yr Ump

Read the thread, "Umpire Signaling TD" below.

As a wingman, I would LOOOOOOVE to see more Umpires yelling "yes, yes, yes, yes" in a big pile so that I have a clue. On pile plays on the goal line, often times the Umpire has the best view of the ball and the goal line.

The only person I want saying "yes, yes, yes" is Meg Ryan.

Look before you leap
 

Before you signal TD, make sure you make eye-contact with the LJ & HL first. It doesn't look good for the entire crew to have the LJ pointing at the 3YL, the HL pointing at the 1YL, and the Umpire signaling TD.

Ah, point well argued.

And this is why in Canada, there is no stigma about the U signalling a TD.

I our crew, the Umpire aids us wingmen with a thumbs up signal - the line judges then signal the TD.

We completely disintegrated this topic in meetings this year! Generally when the ball is punched up the gut in a short yardage goal line play most of the officials lose sight of the ball at some point. We decided that the Umpire will only point downward with both hands and say nothing unless ... 1) neither flank makes a call, and 2) both flanks make eye contact with the Ump and have nothing. At that point the Ump can give the appropriate signal ... touchdown or HARD sell the play as being short. If the ball is in a pile at the Ump's feet, the Ump will dig for the ball and tell the Referee that the ball (when he finds it) is "in" or "short" and the Ref will make the approriate signal. It seems to have worked well so far this season.

Since Umpires don't rule on forward progress, I'm not going to signal to my wingmen that we have a touchdown. I WILL give them a signal if the ball is in the end zone and they can then determine if it is a score or the runner was stopped short.

I agree with 1AA. At U, I can see the ball. But I can very rarely see knees or judge forward progress. Our mechanic is an immediate thumbs up to both lines when we see the ball go over. They they have the timing, and hopefully one or the other can see the knees and judge whether he's down yet or not. If one has it, he makes eye contact with the other, and they both go up with TD (both simultaneously makes a great sell). If one has a knee, he'll whistle and start running in, pointing at the ground.

Goal Line Help.
 

In our crew the Umpire simply grasps his lanyard if the ball carrier is in the EZ, based on his this signal we as Wing officials look at each other to determine if the others official has the ball carriers knee down and forward progress short of the goal .

I had an Umpire once yell YES, he's NOT in,he's short.

The Umpire can be very descreet and helpful. If the ball is not in the EZ, then no signal from the U.

We had a game last week where the RB dove into the goal line, the linesman on the other side marked his spot and "sold" his call before I signaled, so we went with his. They scored on the next play (and we knew they would) so it wasn't that big of a deal. But I wish the U would have stepped in and said that his knee was never down.

schmitty, part of the issue is that it's VERY hard for U to see the knee. I can rarely see it from there, and if I can, most of the time a linesman can too. It's the BALL that U should be helping with, as sometimes it's easier for U to see than L or HL.