Varsity Football Game (NFHS)

During one play, the Offense breaks the huddle with eleven. They come to the line and prior to them setting, a substitute comes running from their sideline all the way across the field and replaces the wide receiver. The WR runs back across the field and exits the field of play on his sideline prior to the ball being snapped. Looked real ugly. We had no call and the defensive team's coach went nuts. The 25 second clock had not expired.

Same game. Kickoff after a score. The ball is kicked towards the sideline. It travels over ten yards, towards the sideline and hits the ground. K touches the ball in an effort to recover and knocks the ball out of bounds. No call. Ball marked at the out of bounds spot for R. The referee said we should have had a flag as K caused the ball to go out of bounds.

Your comments please.

Your "R" was correct on the kickoff. The receiving team then has the option of rekick with 5 yds marked off, their ball at the out of bounds spot or 25 yards from the kickoff.

No foul in your first scenario. In NCAA, B is given the time to adjust their personnel but in NF no allowance. The sub. was within 15 yards of the ball after the RFP and the replaced player was off of the field prior to the snap and prior to the 25 seconds. However, you are right it looks ugly.

Not sure what is ugly about the substitution, other than it probably took quite a few seconds to complete.

Why didn't the Ref throw a late flag on the FK/OOB considering he knew a flag should have been placed at the OOB spot? Might as well get it right an let team-R decide if they want the ball at the OOB spot or not.

As a Ref are you for sure it hits the ground, does go at least ten yards and K was the last to touch. You would have more credibilty, as a crew, to ask those questions (as was) and then have the covering official make the call. I can't see throwing a 30-40 yard flag though.

The only reason for NOT throwing a flag would be if the ball stays inbounds; (assuming B doesn't touch the ball) hits the ground and travels 10 yards untouched by K.
When you come up and determine that there has been a foul, you throw the flag.
Had a play the other nght where after a reception in the EZ the receiver got 'blown up' by a defender. Even from my position at R I could see that it was late, but there was no flag by the covering official.
When I went to him and said I thought that the hit deserved a rag he said he didn't see the hit because he was going up with the TD signal and had already looked away.
That was good enough for me and I threw my flag. If the LJ had time to see the reception, decide to make the call, and start the signal, there was plenty of time for the defender to avoid the hit.
BTW the receiver was on the ground for a good 5 minutes. Enough time for oneof the assistant coaches (who else) to complain loud and long enough to draw the 3/4 USL foul.

Theisey: Why didn't the Ref throw a late flag on the FK/OOB considering he knew a flag should have been placed at the OOB spot? Might as well get it right an let team-R decide if they want the ball at the OOB spot or not.

The Ref was on the opposite side of the field and did not see what I saw (Umpire). The Linesman saw the ball between R and K and then go out of bounds. He assumed that R knocked it out, since I did not throw the flag. I kicked the call!

Canadian Ruling
 

Play 1: Illegal substitution. You cannot substitute once "the gates are up." They'd have to request a timeout to make a player change.

Play 2: This will be K's ball. The ball is live on a kick-off and K can recover if it travels at least 10 yards. Note that the last touched rule applies and that K will likeyl has knocked the ball in an offside direction. It's K's ball 1D/10 @ point where K knocked the ball to out of bounds.

I did not notice "Canadian Ruling" at the top of your post. WHEW, I thought we really screwed up! No disrespect!

Hopefully, your LJ learned something about officiating during dead ball periods. He should keep his eyes on all players in his area until all of the action subsides and both teams move to their respective huddles. Don't let the need to signal a TD overrule that basic principle. In my game this past Saturday, I was the LJ and the runner came to my corner and past just inside the pylon with a defender right on his heels. I gave the TD signal while facing the sideline to watch for any undue action out of bounds. No technique says that your TD signal must be with you facing the field. The more important responsibility is to dead ball officiate.

Flag the correct foul!!
 

(In reference to eventnyc's original question):

It sounded as if the poster was saying that his ref thought the foul should have been on the K player for forcing the ball out-of-bounds and not on the illegal procedure for kicking the ball out of bounds.

Just trying to clarify the original question.

[Edited by GPC2 on Oct 7th, 2004 at 01:28 PM]

The foul is on K, because the kick went out of bounds and R had not touched it. Correct?

Yes, I guess I was being a little technical in stating that the foul was for K kicking the ball out of bounds, and not for K touching the ball which subsequently went out of bounds.

If the ball was touched by K, R has the option of taking it at the spot of first touching.

True, if K's touching happened before the ball crossed R's free-kick line.