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-   -   What is the down? (https://forum.officiating.com/football/15373-what-down.html)

Rick Vietti Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:30pm

Pop Warner game last Sat.

Team A - original offensive team
Team B - original defensive team

1st and ten. Team A passes, ball is intercepted by Team B, after the interception (change of possesion) Team B player is going back up the field, a Team A player (original offensive team) rips the ball out of the Team B players hand (change of possesion again) and is tackled.

White Hat went with 1st and 10 again for Team A based on a change of possesion. I say 2nd down and 15 from where the Team A player was tackled because the end of the down kills the play and not a change of possesion.

Which ruling is correct?

ref59405 Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:33pm

1st and 10.

jimbulger1 Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:36pm

I think WH is right you say B1 had the ball ripped out of his hands but you dont say who recovered I am assuming it was recovered by A if so it is 1st and ten for A

Ref Ump Welsch Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:38pm

White hat had it right, assuming that A had possession of the ball at the end of the play.

BoBo Mon Sep 13, 2004 03:22pm

Another example of this type of play
 
It is 4th down and A is punting.

R blocks the punt picks it up and gains possession and runs with it a few yards. Then R is hit by A/K player and fumbles with the A/K team recovering.

1st and 10 A/K.

Rick Vietti Mon Sep 13, 2004 03:26pm

Team A did have the ball at the end of the down. That is where I am confused.

Since the down did not change and the line to gain had not been met, why would Team A get a new set of downs?




BoBo Mon Sep 13, 2004 03:29pm

Because we have a change of possession. Change of possession is in essence a change of down if that makes it easier for you.

Rick Vietti Mon Sep 13, 2004 03:38pm

I finally found the reference 5-1-3d.

Thanks for the clarifications.

rdfox Mon Sep 13, 2004 04:18pm

Rick,

One additional detail. The clock will start with the ready for play, not the snap, for A's new series!

A change of possession has the clock start on the snap IF it is B's ball...or either team's ball if it is after a legal kick. But a double change of possession without a kick does not hold the clock until the snap.


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