Enforcement Question (High School).

[wmena]

Team A has ball.
2nd and 10 at A44.
Rush 5 yards to A49 yard line.
Penalty on Team A (Illegal Block-15 yrds).
Ref drops flag A40 (which is behind orig line of scrimmage).
Ref walks ball off from A40 back to A25.

Is this correct? Since the penalty happened behind the line of scrimmage, isn't the enforcement spot the original line of scrimmage (which was the A44)?
I also assume that for statistical purposes, the play does not count (ie... no rush stats).. correct?

Can point me to the rule that handles this enforcement, I'd appreciate it.

Is the outcome different between HS and NCAA?

[Texoma_LJ]

Penalty is enforced under the "all but one" principal. On a running play the basic spot is the end of the run. Since the fould occured behind the basic spot is penalized from there. Rules 10-3-2, 10-4-1, 10-4-4
Good spot.

[wmena]

But does it matter if the basic spot is behind the line of scrimmage?

[Theisey]

Originally posted by wmena
....
Is the outcome different between HS and NCAA?

### No.

[wmena]

Ok then... maybe you can explain this then. According to the 2003 NCAA Guide for Statisticians:

http://www.ncaa.org/library/statisti...ats_manual.pdf

Section 14/Article 5:

penalty on a foul by Team A behind the neutral zone (when the run ends behind the line of scrimmage) is enforced from the previous spot including holding behind the neutral zone, which is penalized 10 yards from the previous spot of the ball. The play is nullified and is not recorded (unless Team B declines the penalty).
A.R. 1. Team A’s ball on its 40. Adams rushes for 10 yards but a clipping penalty is called against Team A on its 37. The enforcement spot is the 40. Charge Team A with a penalty of 15 yards. Play is nullified. Do not credit Adams with a rush of 10 yards.

[Theisey]

Because I misread the post as to where the team-A foul was.

Under NCAA rules, the basic spot for this foul is the Previous Spot unless the foul was in the EZ.
Sorry, I really did read it wrong.
There are several other team-A fouls that also fit this.

[wmena]

Thanks Theisey,

So, is the "all-but-one" principle a NFHS thing or is it also used by the NCAA?

My question primarily refers to High School. Nothing I read about "all-but-one" refers to a penalty behind the line of scrimmage. It simply says penalty behind the basic spot by the offense.

So, I'm still getting conflicting info from folks.

Thanks!

[Axe Man]

The thread you posted deals with NCAAand is correct on how a foul behind the line of scrimmage is dealt with. NFHS uses, as Thiesey stated, the all-but-one principle that a foul is always marked from the basic spot unless the offense fouls behind it. So, the enforcement in your origional post is correct. NCAA and NFHS have different enforcements. I'd tell you to go to the NFHS site for keeping stats but my guess is that it doesn't exist. Good luck.

[Theisey]

All-But-One for NFHS is called 3-and-I in NCAA. THey are really the same.

Depending on how you count them up, there are over 220 rules differences between NCAA and NFHS rules.

This enforcement principle for the block you had changed in 2001 and just become one more of these differences. It changed the basic spot to the previous spot for certain fouls by Team-A.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by wmena
Team A has ball.
2nd and 10 at A44.
Rush 5 yards to A49 yard line.
Penalty on Team A (Illegal Block-15 yrds).
Ref drops flag A40 (which is behind orig line of scrimmage).
Ref walks ball off from A40 back to A25.

Is this correct? Since the penalty happened behind the line of scrimmage, isn't the enforcement spot the original line of scrimmage (which was the A44)?
I also assume that for statistical purposes, the play does not count (ie... no rush stats).. correct?

Can point me to the rule that handles this enforcement, I'd appreciate it.

Is the outcome different between HS and NCAA?

10 yards from previous line of scrimmage, down repeated.

Team A 2D/2 @ A-34.