We should have a contest to see who can explain PSK in the fewest words and have it make sense.

Heck, I'd just be happy if someone would explain it to me in English, because there are far too many words and commas in the explanations I've seen. I'm totally confused.

I hope this helps.
 

1. PSK requirements start at the snap.

2. The foul must be committed by R.

3. The foul must take place beyond the expanded neutral zone (2 yards deep in the defense).

4. R must be in possession of the ball at the end of the play.

5. The window closes when the kick ends.

6. You enforce the penalty where it hurts R the most, either the end of the kick or where the ball is downed, which ever will hurt them the most (all but one principle).

That is the basics. The rule was created because K is giving up the ball. Before this rule was put in place, K would get a "cheap" first down on these types of penalties. The PSK enforcement was created so that R would keep the ball and get penalized

Peace

And you have stated them well. For me keeping those basics in mind (or even repeating them to myself prior to a punt) keeps it in perspective and makes it a lot easier when or if something happens.

Re: I hope this helps.
 

I disagree about the "where the ball is downed" part. The end of the kick is the basic spot for a PSK foul. If R's foul is behind that, then enforce from the spot of the foul.

If R was tackled way behind that, K might just decline.

Re: Re: I hope this helps.
 

I realize that I did not make it clear about the penalty enforcement. That is also why I said the all but one principle applies. But if R gets tacked behind the enforcement or basic spot, they penalty is still enforced from the end of the run (or where the ball is downed) if that spot is behind the basic spot. K would not want to decline that penalty, they would usually want to punish them more.

Peace

See, you've gone and put too many words into it again.

We have "end of kick," "end of run," and "end of down."

Please define those for me.

End of kick = where R gains possession or where R touches?
End of run = ostensibly the end of the play, but if R then fumbles, that's the end of his run, correct, not the end of the play?
End of down = when you blow that there Fox-40 and wave your arms and award a new series to somebody.

Right?

Why is this game so freaking complicated?

Start with Definitions or Rule 2.
 

Again, look in the definitions on what this is. For enforcement purposes, you need to see what the end of the run or related run means. You either have a run or a loose ball play for enforcement purposes. So if the end of the run is behind the spot of the foul, you enforce the foul from the end of the run.


Who has the ball at the end of the down? If R has possession of the ball, you can have PSK. If for some reason K has the ball, then you do not have PSK.


I think it is complicated to many newer officials is because you need to understand these basic definitions first. Just like I told you guys in our Football meetings that Rule 2 is the most important rule in the rulebook. You do what a lot of younger officials do not do; you do not go back to Rule 2 to understand what those terms are. Everything in the rulebook goes back to Rule 2 or Definitions (applies to all sports I work). If one of those situations does not apply, you cannot have PSK. And this is not just a problem for younger officials, veterans over think this rule too. We just tend to nitpick situations that are possible and try to change the spirit of the rules.


Peace

PSK foul enforcement
 

I think I can beat Rut on the shortest English version of the PSK foul enforcement.

For a post-scrimmage kick enforcement to apply all of the following conditions must be met.

1) The foul is by R beyond the expanded neutral zone;

2) The foul takes place during the interval between the snap and the end of a scrimmage kick (not a try) that crosses the expanded neutral zone; and,

3) The ball belongs to R when the down ends.

To answer your other question OAB, the end of a kick is when a player catches or recovers a ball, or the ball becomes dead by rule, such as, going out of bounds. The end of a run is where the ball becomes dead in the runner's possession, or where the runner loses possession if his run is followed by a loose ball, or the spot of the catch when the momentum rule is in effect. The end of the down is when the ball next becomes dead. It is rarely when you blow you whistle. If a down ends in its natural sequence of events it is over before you blow your whistle.

Re: PSK foul enforcement
 

Challenging Rutledge to an English competition! You're a real risk taker, aren't you?

Understand this French.
 

Bob, GO **** YOURSELF!!!!

Peace

More words for you OVER AND BACK1

there is an exception to PSK. If the play results in a successful Field goal, it is not a PSK option. That means you have a foul by R (like B) on a loose ball play and will be enforced from the previous spot. K can take the points off the board and continue their drive or (have the penalty measured on the suceeding spot). If that last option is wrong I am sure I will be corrected by someone.

Okay, I'm getting closer. Tell me how close I am.

Let's ignore a missed field goal for a moment (besides a punt, that's the only other kind of of scrimmage kick that isn't a try or a successful field goal, right?). So this is an oversimplification, but, being a new official who can't read, this would be a helpful start for me:

"On a punt, if R fouls downfield between the time of the snap and end of the kick, you enforce the foul from the basic spot (usually the end of the kick) unless the foul occured behind the basic spot, when you use the 'all but one' principle and enforce from the spot of the foul."

That's assuming R ends up with the ball. But if I'm close on that, it should cover the vast majority of the situations where you're likely to have PSK enforcement, n'est-ce pas?

Missed Field Goal
 

A missed field goal is just another scrimmage kick - like a punt - so there's no special case to consider there - regular PSK rules apply (you can't have PSK on a good field goal because R never gains possession).

[Edited by SeanWest on Sep 2nd, 2004 at 11:03 PM]

The first thing you need to do is to get the "all but one" principle out of your head on this play. The "all but one" principle applies only to fouls committed by the offense that are behind the basic spot.

With PSK the spot is the spot where the kick ends. (That's why we have to bean bag it). Fouls by R behind the post-scrimmage spot are spot fouls. In your example the end of the kick is the post-scrimmage spot and if the foul is behind this spot then the foul will be a spot foul enforced from the spot of the foul. Notice that "all but one" does not even come into play. Why? Because team designation remains the same from the beginning of a down and until the down is ended. K is equivalent to A (offense) and remains so until the scrimmage kick down has ended. Inversely, R is equivalent to B (defense) and remains so until the down has ended. "All but one" applies only to fouls by K or A.

SOGAref is not correct. The team in possession of a live ball is offense and subject to the all but one principle. 2 examples are B during a return of an intercertion and R during the return of a punt. The designations of A,B,K,and R don't change but the designations of offense and defense do change.

I stand corrected.
 

My wording wasn't exactly how I should have worded it. Wasn't thinking clearly at such an hour. Good thing we play games a little earlier in the day.

Here is what I meant to say. When the foul is by the team not in possession, the penalty is enforced from the basic spot; when the foul is by the team in possession and occurs beyond the basic spot, the penalty is enforced from the basic spot; and when the foul is by the team in possession and occurs behind the basic spot, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. That pretty much encompasses the all but one enforcement.

My man JRutledge used the phrase "all but one" in the second post in this thread, that's why I used it.

See why this is confusing for the new guys? ;)

All but one clarified
 

There is often much mystery surrounding the all-but-one principle, but in fact it is really quite simple. Forget about the words "offense" and "defense". Notice SJoldguy, this is where I get my ducks back in a row! Instead, think of it this way, it is either a foul by the team in possession or the team not in possession and it occurs either behind or beyond the basic spot for that play. Two teams and two possible locations equal four categories of fouls.

If the foul is by the team "not in possession", whether behind or beyond the basic spot, or by the team "in possession beyond the basic spot", the penalty is enforced from the basic spot. This is the "all" in the name: three classifications of fouls have their penalties enforced from the basic spot. The fourth is the remaining one--by the team in possession behind the basic spot. This is the "one," and the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul.

I'll admit it took me years to finally break it down to this simple understanding, but it hasn't failed me since.

The bag marks the basic spot, subject to the all-but-one principle.

Definitions, definitions, definitions.

Working a FR/JV DH last night -- we had 2 fouls on kick returns where the foul was beyond the end of the run. Knowing the definitions is important -- basic spot is the end of the run and because the foul was not behind the basic spot we marched off the fouls from the end of the run.

Once the definitions are solidly in your head, you'll start talking in those terms and thinking in those terms and you won't even realize it.

(1) Is the foul (enforced as a dead ball or live ball?
(2) Is the play a loose ball play, running play, or PSK?
(3) Where is the basic spot?
(4) Was the foul behind the basic spot?

Couldn't agree with you more, Rich!

Re: All but one clarified
 

It's even simpler than this when you consider WHY we have all-but-one enforcement. When a foul is committed by a team in possession, we give all the yardage earned up to the foul, but no more. I'll throw in two simple plays to illustrate:

PLAY: A ball on A's 35. A56 holds B92 at the 36 yard line on a run that ends at A's 40.

Result: Penalize from the 36 since it is behind the basic spot (the end of the run).

Think about why we penalize from there -- if we stepped off 10 from the 40 (the end of the run) we are giving four yards extra that may have been gained BECAUSE of the foul.

PLAY: A ball on A's 35. A56 holds B92 at the 45 yard line on a run that ends at A's 40.

Result: Mark the foul from the end of the run, the basic spot.

We don't penalize from the spot of the foul because the offense hasn't earned those yards.

--Rich

OverAndBack,

Send me an email ([email protected]) and I'll send you some materials that might help you understand enforcement and PSK.

Do you think we have added to his confusion Bob?

REPLY: Absolutely not! I just thought that OAB is probably feeling like he's drinking from a firehose and was offering something that he can sit down and read leisurely. But no, you guys were right on the money!

I am still confused, for what it's worth.

I just wish rules were written in English.

We haven't hit on an English definition where it clicks in my mind yet.

All-but-one took a couple of days, but then it clicked in my mind. PSK I haven't figured out yet. But thanks for trying.

PSK is based on the theory that the kicking team has given up its possession via a scrimmage kick.

If the foul is beyond the expanded neutral zone and R retains possession of the ball at the end of the down, why should K get to keep the ball? They, essentially have already given it up.

--Rich

I'm not unclear on that. Of course they've given it up.

What I'm unclear about is the enforcement spot.

Let me try this again, see if I'm getting closer:

"On a punt or missed field goal attempt, if R fouls downfield between the time of the snap and end of the kick, you enforce the foul from the end of the kick unless the foul occured behind that spot, when you enforce from the spot of the foul."

BTW, Rule 2 in my rule book doesn't offer a definition that I can see for "end of kick" or "end of run."

2-23-2: "A kick ends when a player gains possession or when the ball becomes dead while not in player possession."

i.e. When someone catches it, when it hits the ground and someone picks it up, when no ones got it and it goes out of bounds.

2-40-9: "The spot where a run ends is where the runner loses player possession or where the ball becomes dead in his possession."

i.e. Where he fumbles the ball or where he is tackled.

-SW---

Once you know where the end of the kick is and that it IS a PSK situation, enforcement is pretty easy.

The beanbag marks the basic spot. Penalty behind that, enforce from the flag. Otherwise, enforce from the beanbag.

Would you like to cover some plays to help you further?

--Rich

It's almost there. Thanks, Sean. I was looking under "E" for "End" in the rules! ;)

Sure, some plays will be helpful. I'm getting closer.

Oversimplification
 

PSK restrictions can pretty much be remembered with this two-word phrase: "R downfield"

Expanded:
(1) R must foul downfield.
(2) The kick must go downfield.
(3) R must end up in possession.
(4) Enforcement spot is furthest downfield (worst for R).

Some plays (assume in all cases the foul occurs during the kick, which is a normal punt unless otherwise stated):
(I) K 4/20 @ K35. R clips at midfield. Ball received at R25, returned to R40. RULING: PSK foul, penalized from R25. R 1/10 @ R12.5.

(II) K 4/20 @ K35. Two R players signal for fair catch. One of them blocks a K player at the R20, the other makes the catch at the R25. RULING: PSK foul, penalized from the spot of the foul. R 1/10 @ R10.

(III) K 4/10 @ R30. K attempts a field goal and misses wide left. R is flagged for 5-yard facemask at the R25. RULING: PSK foul, since R will have the ball after the touchback. Penalize from the R20, R 1/10 @ R15. If the foul were at, say, the R15, we would penalize from there since that would be worse for R.

(IV) K 4/10 @ midfield. R clips at R20. K (with no receiver nearby) catches the punt at the R1. RULING: PSK foul, since R will be getting the ball. R 1/10 @ R half-yard line.

(V) K 4/20 @ K35. K clips at midfield. Ball received at R25, returned to R40. RULING: No PSK, because the foul is on K. The penalty, if accepted by R, is enforced from the previous spot. K 4/35 @ K20 or R 1/10 @ R40.

(VI) K 4/20 @ K35. R clips an offensive lineman at K36. Ball received at R25, returned to R40. RULING: No PSK, as the foul is not downfield. (It's in the expanded NZ.) Penalize from previous spot (loose ball play), K 4/5 @ 50.

(VII) K 4/20 @ K35. R clips at midfield. Kick is blocked at the line of scrimmage, picked up by R and run back for a TD. RULING: No PSK, as the kick did not go downfield (cross the ENZ). Previous spot foul, K 4/5 @ 50.

(VIII) K 4/5 @ R35. R holds at R30, K kicks a successful field goal. RULING: No PSK, as R would NOT immediately have the ball on the next play. K may keep the points and penalize on kickoff, or take the points off and penalize from previous spot, K 1/10 @ R25.

(IX) K 4/20 @ K35. K holds behind the line, and R clips at midfield. Ball received at R25, returned for TD. RULING: R's foul is PSK. R may keep the ball by declining the penalty on K; their penalty will be enforced from the R25, resulting in no TD and R 1/10 @ R 12.5. If R accepts the foul on K, double foul - replay the down.

(X) K 4/20 @ K35. K holds behind the line, and R roughs the kicker. Ball fair caught at R25. RULING: No PSK, as the R foul is not downfield. Double foul - replay the down.


This isn't quite a comprehensive list of possible plays, but it certainly should be good enough to see you through most situations.