"Crazy" situations

[The Roamin' Umpire]

In another thread, OverAndBack requested a "crazy" situation every day. This is only semi-crazy, but it came up at our association meeting tonight and I thought it was interesting enough:

4/10 @ B40. A80 runs to the B33 and then shovels the ball forward; A88 catches this at the B28 and runs it into the EZ. B99, ticked off about the apparent score, then levels A88 with a punch.

Give possession, down, distance, and clock status.

[JRutledge]

First we have an Illegal Forward pass at the B33 yard line.

We will enforce the IFP and we will have 1st and 10 from the B 38 (loss of down penalty).

Oh wait, we have a dead ball foul.

We will add on 15 yards for the dead ball personal foul.

So we end up with the ball on B's 23 yard line.

BTW, we are ejecting B99 from the game.

Peace

[Edited by JRutledge on Aug 18th, 2004 at 10:55 PM]

[Bob Floyd]

A is guilty of illegal forward pass at B33. Cancel score, penalize 5 yards to B38 plus loss of down. Ball goes over to B since this was a fourth down play. Penalize B 15 yards from the B38 for the dead ball foul. B99 is ejected. B's ball 1st and 10 on their 23 yard line. Clock starts on the snap.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by The Roamin' Umpire
In another thread, OverAndBack requested a "crazy" situation every day. This is only semi-crazy, but it came up at our association meeting tonight and I thought it was interesting enough:

4/10 @ B40. A80 runs to the B33 and then shovels the ball forward; A88 catches this at the B28 and runs it into the EZ. B99, ticked off about the apparent score, then levels A88 with a punch.

Give possession, down, distance, and clock status.

This is an easy one. Flag A80's offside pass at the B-33. Keep officiating and when the ball crosses into the EZ, the whistle will be blown, ending the play. B99 is flagged for a dead ball rough play foul. He will be DQ'd.

Because the offside pass is not a foul in Canada, there is no distance penalty, however, additional yards after that spot cannot legally be gained (unless B declines) so downs continue from the B-33. Since yards were not gained, A turns the ball over on downs. Now we deal with the RP. That's 25y or half the distance + DQ. Half the distance is to the 16.5. So, team B 1D/10 @ B-16.5.

[FredFan7]

Originally posted by Bob Floyd
A is guilty of illegal forward pass at B33. Cancel score, penalize 5 yards to B38 plus loss of down. Ball goes over to B since this was a fourth down play. Penalize B 15 yards from the B38 for the dead ball foul. B99 is ejected. B's ball 1st and 10 on their 23 yard line. Clock starts on the snap.

But A made the line to gain, even after the IFP walk-off. I agree with JRutledge's ruling.

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by FredFan7

But A made the line to gain, even after the IFP walk-off. I agree with JRutledge's ruling.

Look again at my post. This was a fourth down play. The penalty for an illegal pass beyond the LOS is 5 yards and loss of down. This means B will have first and 10 on B's 23 after the fouls are administered. I don't think JRutledge stated who would have the ball after the penalties, just that the ball would end up on B23. He did, however, also state that this was a loss of down penalty. While not saying so, I think he implied that B would get the ball.

[JRutledge]

B would get the ball. Sorry if that was unclear.

Peace

[FredFan7]

Oh......nevermind!

[1AAUMP]

Disagree about B getting the ball. Since A made the line to gain after IFP enforcement, they will keep the ball 1/10.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by 1AAUMP
Disagree about B getting the ball. Since A made the line to gain after IFP enforcement, they will keep the ball 1/10.

The line to gain is the B-30, the spot of the illegal forward pass and the spot where the penalty will be enforced is the B-33.
Team-A did not reach the line to gain before nor after penalty enforcement.
Team-B takes over.

[FredFan7]

Oh, I see. I misread the post. It's at the ***B*** 40. I thought it was at the A40. That ruling makes sense.

[1AAUMP]

My bad also - I was thinking A40, not B40

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by FredFan7
Oh, I see. I misread the post. It's at the ***B*** 40. I thought it was at the A40. That ruling makes sense.

It matters not whether A started from the B40 or the A40. It was a fourth down play. The penalty carries a loss of down. B is going to get the ball irrespective of A's line to gain.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

I'm afraid you're mistaken, Bob. The last sentence of NF 5-2-2 states: "The loss of down aspect of a penalty has no significance following a change of possession or if the line to gain is reached after enforcement."

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by The Roamin' Umpire
I'm afraid you're mistaken, Bob. The last sentence of NF 5-2-2 states: "The loss of down aspect of a penalty has no significance following a change of possession or if the line to gain is reached after enforcement."

You are quite right. Thanks for the correction. It does matter if A had put the ball in play on the A40 rather than the B40. Brain freeze!