To Beanbag or not to beanbag?

[OverAndBack]

I've heard veteran officials say with pride that they rarely throw their beanbags.

How often do you use yours and in what situations?

[wwcfoa43]

[I referee in Canada so our mechanics might be different.]

Personally, I have used my bean bag recently in two situations:

1. On a punt I was on sides and I saw the umpire had thrown a flag with the ball in flight. Once I was downfield to cover the punt I tossed my bean bag to mark the point of possession in case that would be the point of application. I felt this would be more accurate than asking the deep officials (who do not routinely note the POP) or the umpire.

2. When I am the referee and there is a potential intentional grounding where I am unable to call it myself because I am busy protecting the QB and one of the side guys throws his flag, I toss my bean bag to mark the potential point of application in case it is needed.

[mnref]

I beanbag the following in Fed/HS:
1. all fumbles
2. end of kicks (for PSK reasons)
3. first touching by K
4. spot of catch if momentum carried into endzone
5. sideline spot if you need to officiate/break up players and have a lazy back judge

no need to bean bag interceptions in Fed.


[Edited by mnref on Aug 11th, 2004 at 11:42 AM]

[Patton]

You have to use your beanbag! If youo have a fumble and and a penalty, beanbagging the spot of the fumble may be the spot of enforcement. With PSK, beanbagging the spot where R gains possession also gives you the enforcement spot if there was a penalty. How about first touching by K on a free kick. Any number of things can happen after that first touching, and you're going to look pretty bad if you don't have that spot marked. Same thing on on momentum situation. Bag the spot of possession! Bagging the spot a runner goes out of bounds and following the play out as a linesman when done properly looks extremely professional. But don't over use it. You don't bag a muffed snap. Also, you don't have to throw the bag at the spot of a fumble, just drop it on the yardline it occurred at. Just remember we carry the bag for a purpose and use it where it was intended to be used. Have a great year!

[ABoselli]

Always have it out of your belt and in your hand on punts and free kicks.

[OverAndBack]

Originally posted by ABoselli
Always have it out of your belt and in your hand on punts and free kicks.

THAT is a great mechanics tip. Thanks!

[Bob M.]

REPLY: Don't forget to bag backward passes from beyond the neutral zone or when there is no neutral zone. Some purists will say that there's no need to bag a fumble from behind the neutral zone. But I personally see no problem doing so.

[Patton]

Originally posted by Bob M.
REPLY: Don't forget to bag backward passes from beyond the neutral zone or when there is no neutral zone. Some purists will say that there's no need to bag a fumble from behind the neutral zone. But I personally see no problem doing so.

Bob, did you mean to say to bag MUFFED backward passes from beyond the neutral zone or when there is no neutral zone or should you bag all? If all, why? Thanks!

[Theisey]

Not to speak for Bob, but yes he meant a BkWd Pass beyond the NZ as that would be an end-of-the-run spot in case there happened to be a foul. It might be the basic spot for enforcement.

[Patton]

Originally posted by Theisey
Not to speak for Bob, but yes he meant a BkWd Pass beyond the NZ as that would be an end-of-the-run spot in case there happened to be a foul. It might be the basic spot for enforcement.

Sorry, Theisey, but I don't see the situation where if the ball wasn't muffed or fumbled that you would need to bag that spot. For example, the old Stanford game where they keep lateraling the ball on the kickoff and ran over the band, you would have had bags (maybe some hats and socks, too) all over the field. Am I missing something? Thanks!

[Theisey]

Had the Stanford play occurred today (lets not have the band out there), there would be bags, hats, jocks, socks, all over the field per mechanic.

Simple example.. A 1/10 @50

A34 runs to the B-40 and tosses a backward pass to A88 who is at the B-42. A88 runs to the B-30 where he is tackled.
During A34's run, A89 blocks below the waist on the B-35.

Where is the spot of enforcement? B-40?, B-30? or the B-35?

[Patton]

Originally posted by Theisey
Had the Stanford play occurred today (lets not have the band out there), there would be bags, hats, jocks, socks, all over the field per mechanic.

Simple example.. A 1/10 @50

A34 runs to the B-40 and tosses a backward pass to A88 who is at the B-42. A88 runs to the B-30 where he is tackled.
During A34's run, A89 blocks below the waist on the B-35.

Where is the spot of enforcement? B-40?, B-30? or the B-35?

I would say this entire action is part of the run and the end of the run is at the B-30. Therefore, using the all-but-one principal, the foul occurred behind the basic spot and the penalty accessed from B-35. That's why I didn't think it would need to be bagged. ???????

[JugglingReferee]

I'm with wwcfoa43 on this one.

Here in Canada, points of application for fouls committed while the ball is in flight on a punt or kick-off, are applied form the point of possession. Knowing that spot is our responsibility. You either make a mental note of that spot, or drop a beanbag.

Here's a sitch: a short kick-off by a team down by 2 points with under a minute to go. The kicking team first touches the ball after it travels 10 yards and bats it out of bounds, towards the other team's end zone, 10 yards further than the spot of first touching.

Result: 1D/10 for the kicking team at the spot of first touching, and not where it went out of bounds. Dropping a bean bag at that spot is excellent work - just have the next scrimmage from the bean bag.

I wonder why in the pros a bb is used (CFL and NFL). Hmm....

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Patton

I would say this entire action is part of the run and the end of the run is at the B-30. Therefore, using the all-but-one principal, the foul occurred behind the basic spot and the penalty accessed from B-35. That's why I didn't think it would need to be bagged. ???????

The end of the run (in relation to penalty enforcement) is defined in the rulebook.

2-40-9 The spot where the run ends is where the runner loses player possession or where the ball becomes dead in his possession.


10-4-4 states: The basic spot is the spot where the related run ends for a foul which occurs during a running play as defined in 10-3-2.


Using these definitions, the related run ended for A34 at the B-40. This is now the basic spot for fouls during his run and A89 did just this. The fouls is in advance of the end of his run so we enforce from the basic spot (the B-40).

[Theisey]

and Mike is correct for this play example. That's why the bag is used.