IP and the Pylon

[ljudge]

Under another "pylon-titled" post there was some discussion about calling a pass incomplete when team member A touched the pylon then subsequently caught the ball.

I saw the diaglog between Snake~eyes, Bob M., et al. agreeing this would technically be IP but calling incomplete seemed to be the consensus call.

What if A touched the pylon then had a simultaneous catch with B a yard or two away? By rule, the ball becomes dead immediately and the result of the play is a TD. Then you need to consider that A touched the pylon (IP), which if accepted, would wipe out the TD then enforce the foul.

If A were touching the sideline and B was in the end zone it's a pretty tough sell calling a simultaneous catch an incomplete pass, but by rule, that's exactly what it is. I only say tough sell because B's coach may not know that rule and would probably go ape s##t if you called incomplete.

But assuming something close to that scenario (simultaneous catch), if A touches the pylon and you don't call IP, then calling incomplete when his foot is no longer touching OOB (say it's a yard away), then what would you call? Still call incomplete? Or, "forced" into calling IP?

That's not all that far fetched. There are quite a few "jump balls" in the end zone.

One thing I do to eliminate this possibility is to move the 2 hash pylons back two full yards, which the rule book says to do any way starting last year. I move them before every game.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by ljudge
Under another "pylon-titled" post there was some discussion about calling a pass incomplete when team member A touched the pylon then subsequently caught the ball.

I saw the diaglog between Snake~eyes, Bob M., et al. agreeing this would technically be IP but calling incomplete seemed to be the consensus call.

### I do not agree with calling this an incomplete pass. Call it exactly as you would had the receiver stepped out of bounds on any sideline. Drop the bag and flag when he comes back in bounds.

What if A touched the pylon then had a simultaneous catch with B a yard or two away? By rule, the ball becomes dead immediately and the result of the play is a TD. Then you need to consider that A touched the pylon (IP), which if accepted, would wipe out the TD then enforce the foul.

### exactly what you should do.

If A were touching the sideline and B was in the end zone it's a pretty tough sell calling a simultaneous catch an incomplete pass, but by rule, that's exactly what it is. I only say tough sell because B's coach may not know that rule and would probably go ape s##t if you called incomplete.

### why is this a tough sell? The receiver is OOB. I wouldn't call it a simultaneous catch at all considering it's not a catch unless you come down inbounds.

But assuming something close to that scenario (simultaneous catch), if A touches the pylon and you don't call IP, then calling incomplete when his foot is no longer touching OOB (say it's a yard away), then what would you call? Still call incomplete? Or, "forced" into calling IP?

That's not all that far fetched. There are quite a few "jump balls" in the end zone.

### Again call it the same as if it were to occur in the field of play along the sidelines.

One thing I do to eliminate this possibility is to move the 2 hash pylons back two full yards, which the rule book says to do any way starting last year. I move them before every game.

### correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was 3 feet (1 yard). No need to over do it here. It has been my understanding (at least for NCAA) the reason the endline pylons were moved off the line was to keep the back judge from running over them.

[kentref]

### I do not agree with calling this an incomplete pass. Call it exactly as you would had the receiver stepped out of bounds on any sideline. Drop the bag and flag when he comes back in bounds.

What if A touched the pylon then had a simultaneous catch with B a yard or two away? By rule, the ball becomes dead immediately and the result of the play is a TD. Then you need to consider that A touched the pylon (IP), which if accepted, would wipe out the TD then enforce the foul.

### exactly what you should do.

What is the enforcement spot in this case?

[Theisey]

It's enforced from the Previous Spot.

[SJoldguy]

Hi Joe , Guess who! You have to call IP. You can't justify "a better call. i.e. incomplete pass". Thanks for reminding us to move the pylon off the sideline. That will solve the entire situation.

[ljudge]

Is that you Mr. W.? Welcome to the forum. Encourage your cadets to use this forum. It has helped me quite a bit as there are many individuals from all areas of the country who make this forum excellent.

And, they use it 24 X 7 X 365!!!

[SJoldguy]

MR.W???? Am I getting that old? Duane ( a new varsity official) keeps saying to me.. "I remember you when you did my peewee games!" Yes Joe, I am MR.W

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by SJoldguy
Thanks for reminding us to move the pylon off the sideline.

Are the pylons suppose to be off the sideline?

[ljudge]

Not on the 4 corners, just the 2 on the end line that are aligned with the hashes. I know college does it the same way (from what I see on TV). Federation started it last year.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by ljudge
Not on the 4 corners, just the 2 on the end line that are aligned with the hashes. I know college does it the same way (from what I see on TV). Federation started it last year.

That's what I thought, not sure what SJoldguy is talking about. :?

If I understand the question correctly A and B had a simultaneous catch which would give the ball to A but A is now guilty of illegal participation bacause he left the field of play supposedly on his own.