I'm curious as to what level would we consider a conflict of interest. I got to thinking about that today when I read an article on a local newspaper's website.

http://www.nj.com/sports/gloucester/...2121278830.xml

But what if it wasn't so obvious like if your kid was in the band or a cheerleader. Or, if it was your alma mater in a town where you no longer live and it's been 15 years since you went to the school. I guess the real answer is "it depends" and there are no real rules per-se.

The umpire in the article is probably very fair and I don't know him so I can't and won't comment on his integrity. The only 2nd-guessing I would do is to not put myself in a situation where I could be judged to be biased.

But again, what if it were indirect? Cheerleader, Band, Pep-Squad, alma mater of 20 years and you no longer live there, etc. etc.

I'm sure the real answer is just using common sense to each unqiue situation.

Here's my belief, if you have family that goes to the school then you cannot work it, whether they are on the team or not. If you have recently gone there then you cannot work the school either. If you come back 15 years later and it happens to be the same coach or somthing along those lines then you are also out.

Why even chance this problem? Even if it is 15 years later, just cross the school off your list. There's a ton of other schools you can work.

Couldn't agree more. If you've got a family connection to a school, then don't work a game involving that school; and never work a school you attended.

A few times during the year, i worked on games where my cousin was playing. I just didn't know that before hand. Now with a son or daughter playing you shouldn't be able to use that excuse, but say you're doing a game with your old high school and its a road game for them. I usually don't find out who the away team is until I walk on the field, so sometimes it is impossible to avoid a conflict of interest. Although in a situation where one is present, I make sure to be as objective as I always am in my officiating.

In every sport I work I can X a school and I will never be assigned to work at that school. How hard is it to tell your assignor "don't schedule me to work blah blah blah games."

my wife is a school teacher and I work games for the district she teaches in. However, I will not work a playoff game that involves that school, but this is a purely personal decision. Many of the officials in my area are from this area and call ball for the schools that they graduated from.

my belief - it is up to individual umpire to make this decision based upon input from his association. Most of us have a pretty good sense of what situations to avoid, use that judgement.

Not sure that is the worst conflict.
 

I disagree with not working a school you attended.

For one it depends on your involvement with that school. I have officiated games at my alma mater a few times and it makes little or no difference to me. It is just another game. For one I know more people at other schools and have a closer relationship with people at schools that I have never attended. So is that more of a conflict than the school I attended and I know a few people from that same community? I can understand if that conflict is working a school where you family still attends and has very close ties, but to just say you can never work a school you attended is silly to me. Especially if you are talking about working lower level games. It might make more sense to work a JV game in the town or same school, rather than working an hour away to work that same level.

I think there are all kinds of conflicts, but if working at and alma mater is the main one, not sure what other conflicts you guys have run into. What if the head coach was my childhood friend? How far are we going to take these conflicts?

Peace

Re: Not sure that is the worst conflict.
 

Although I agree that a childhood friend could cause confict, you should eliminate this school if you don't feel comfortable working, otherwise go for it. Oviously you might know some coaches, they may be your neighbors or you might know them from your other job, what ever the reason be. But I do think that if you have just come out of the HS then you should eliminate the school. I don't think you have to eliminate a school after 15yrs but if you believe it will cause headaches then why not do it. And I'm not saying everybody who comes out of the school will cheat for their school or even subconciously make calls for their school, but it does seem kind of hazy.

hazy??
 

If that is hazy, then my relationship with all the people in a small town should be considered hazy as well.

My point is if we dig hard enough we can always find suspected conflicts. I think where you live are a huge difference than who Booster Club you support. I might live in a town, but it is another thing to work a school when I work on the School Board. I started officiating in a small town and it was hard to not work the local HS. And just working a couple of miles over does not eliminate those possible conflicts. All I am saying is that we cannot use a blanket gauge for where we work and where we do not work. I think it is much different if I am an employee of a school than just someone that lives in the area.

Peace

I agree that one could dig up all types of "conflicts" depending on who you know, etc. The reason I stated previously that you should avoid working games that involved the school you attended was that most people will perceive that you have a conflict. Unfortunately, perception equals reality for a lot of folks.

That is a tough one.
 

Well unless you live in the town that you went to HS in, it is very possible that no one even knows unless you tell them. That is my point. So when we are talking about at the HS level and below that would be really hard to find officials if we used that criteria to decide alone if someone can work a game or not. I know a lot of many schools that would not be able to find officials if that was the deciding factor. And they certainly could not have officials directly in the area, because someone attended either one of the schools playing the game.

Peace

If I feel uncomfortable with the climate of the game, then I don't work it. This is a game by game decision. After all, you will get to know most of the coaches in your area over time anyway (whether you like it or not). A personal relationship doesn't mean you can't do a good job. That's one good thing about football; more officials make for a lessor ability for bias. I guess it is just your comfort level. I know the coaches well enough that every game I work I know someone somehow. I do think a good rule of thumb is to stay out of your home school, especially if there is more than one alum on your crew. You don't want to put yourself in an awkward situation.

All that I am saying is that you have to take each situation individually. There are some cases where attending that school would be a major problem. But there are other issues that might carry more conflicts, like being a good friend of a father of one of the players. For many that would be a conflict if they officiate a school they attended. I am just suggesting that is not the case for everyone and every situation. I also think it makes a really big difference if you are working a varsity game, as compared to a JV or Freshman game. Usually the only people available to work games at the lower level are officials that live close. In the game of football we also do not have the same type of control over a game as maybe other sports. I would not deny a crew a game because one guy on that crew has attended that school. Now if a playoff assignment is at stake that I can understand. But you are never going to eliminate all conflicts or possible conflicts when working games.

Peace

Who's your daddy?
 

I didn't know it, but I had a LJ whose son was a receiver on the team.

When he committed a false start his Daddy flagged him. After the game the LJ was late coming off the field. When he finally showed up, he told me that his wife was giving the "what for" for flagging their son.

Nothing good can come out of that situation.

I would not work a varsity game that involved a family member. Freshman and JV are a different story. We just do not have enough officials willing to travel far for underclass games.

How about this ... Mike Guman played tailback for Penn State while his father was on the officiating crew. Several games...

I'll draw the line at the JV level

I think conflict of interest would depend on the situation also. For example, there's a local high school who's girls basketball games I won't work because my cousin is the varsity head coach, and it's his program from top to bottom. I know this for a fact because his hand is in it all the way. The boys games from that school I have no problem accepting because there's no conflict.

I would accept any games that involve my alma mater, mainly because I know all the coaches from my days have either stepped down as coaches or have retired from the school. I've only been out 15 years. Seems like anyone can wait 10 years to go back and work games at their alma mater and be safe.

I have a nephew who plays football and basketball for a small school a couple of hours away, and I've made it known that I will not work any games, boys or girls, for that school. However, a school I used to work at, I have no problems accepting games because I hardly know any of the kids that attend now.

Like I said at the beginning, it all depends on the situation that arises. Each official must use his/her judgement and allow the officials' code of ethics (National Fed has a good one) to guide their thinking. I'm bound by a code of ethics in another field that I work in, and turn to that code when I need guidance in making a decision that may be ethically based.

I avoided my daughters school as she was a cheerleader and I knew most of the kids for years. Now that she is out I do work them. I believe that if you are sitting in the stands you can root for whatever team you want to, but when I have that snazzy black & white shirt on I don't care who wins.

Things are organized a bit differently where I am (Germany).

The teams are required to provide refs for a pool for the area (each team has a set number depending on how many different levels they play at - flag, youth, senior). This means that often the refs are not only ex-players, but current players or coaches - myself included.

Some refs are registered for a team but don't have anything to do with them and will accept any assignment, but people with active connections to a team usually tell the assigner.

This year we have a real shortage on some weekends (the schedule put too many games on the same days) and I have been asked to ref (white hat even) flag games of my own team - which no one complained about, I found it a little uncomfortable before the game, but when it started I could blend out everything. The teams were just A and B, or Red and Green (jersey colours) and I didn't feel any influence about the team.
I even stepped in to help at a youth game of ours (I coach the youth team) - to keep the game from being forfeit due to lack of refs. The other coaches new me very well as a ref and were quite happy to have me (as LM beside them).

But I have turned down assignments this year to ref at games in the devision that I play in - teams that I will personally be seeing on the field. Not because I would influence the game, but I don't want them to be able to come back after a game - or at the end of the season and say I did something unfair.

Not that it really matters. My team is one of the worst around and loose basically every game (it's really a just-for-fun team), but better to keep away from the possibility that someone complains.

With the flag games, I don't have any connection other than knowing the coaches - but then I know the coaches of almost all the teams around very well.
With the youth game, it was only with the permission of the other team - and they were happy with the outcome, but generally I would not do it.

James

I've recently been thrown into this problem in a major way, in my opinion. I began officiating sports in Washington State. I didn't know many people and didn't go to school there. So I saw no big deal in going anywhere and working any assignment given to me. After a while, I come to learn that the occasional student in my college classes was still a high school student that played a sport I worked. Oh well. I couldn't care less, and they expect that kind of attitude from somebody wearing the stripes.

However, I just moved back to Nevada and find myself wondering if I could work games at the high school I graduated from 10 years ago. I really don't think I'll have any problems: I never played football, none of the coaches that I was acquainted with are still there, and I'm very particular about calling a game honestly. I was a big fan of my school's football team and enjoyed going to their game each week, but what does that matter when I'd rather be known as a fair and honest official that works hard instead of a fan of so-and-so?

I think it's a bit easier since I graduated 10 years ago and there are only a few people left at the school (teachers) that were there when I graduated. The rest all went elsewhere, as my school was once a suburban school with lots of money but now is virtually a poor, inner-city school. So even any academic ties to the school are virtually broken.

I think the one thing I have going for me is that I enjoy watching officials more than players. I remember a WHL hockey game I attended last February: Vancouver at Seattle. I wanted Seattle to win: they were the home team and I'd always been particular to the Thunderbirds. The whole game, I was calling icing/no ice along with the linesmen. I would critique every call the ref made (I didn't care what team was penalized, I either agreed or disagreed). I also threw a big fit when a cheap shot by my team went noticed and un-penalized by the referee, and was very critical of a no goal call after the visiting team put the puck in the net. But that's OK. When I'm in the WHL one of these years, I'll do better (or at least my best). And I'm pretty certain I'll be as good as that ref was, even if I thought he missed some stuff.

Partiality? It's in the mind of the flag thrower.

-Craig

Just for perspective, I am a Penn State graduate. I would imagine that is officiating even Joe Paterno did not complain about!

Anyway, I have not studied all the replies carefully, but I do agree that you have to take each situation individually.

I would probably work my alma mater's games. My father, his brother, his sister, and many of my cousins attended the high school that is an arch rival to my alma mater. I have friends that are teachers there (in fact I have more friends that teach at the rival high school than at my alma mater). Does that make me biased toward that high school? I do not believe so, I know I can be fair, and I would not refuse games involving either school.

If you want to go deeper yet, I work near a particular school. I have no other connection to that school, and I would defintely not have any problem working a game at that school, but I suppose someone could find some impropriety in that situation.

In my opinion it is a no-brainer not to work a game if one's child is playing (I do not have to worry about that, as I do not have kids), but what about a second cousin? What about one's boss's nephew? There is not a correct answer to these situations, and all officials I know would be totally fair in such games, but I do not believe any good can come from the situation.

I believe it is up to the individual to "scratch" themselves from a game, and I hope they make the correct call. Anyway, my not so humble opinions on the subject.

The hard decisions come when you're not talking about working a different game, or even giving up a single game, but giving up the entire season (or more)... Examples:

<UL>
<LI>I played small college ball in Montana... The father of one of the quarterbacks was a referee... He ended up not officiating the college seasons while his son was in school... (I don't know how much of this was conflict based and how much was just wanting to watch the games...) Wise choice, I think, but I imagine it would be tough to give up doing college ball for four years...
<LI>I went to High school in a city with 6 high schools... I attended one my freshman year and another for the other three years... Additionally, my line coach for two of those years, and the coach I respected the most, coaches at a third... So you could argue that I should not do any games with any of those teams... Most weeks, that would leave no games for me to work... (But I don't live there anymore, so it's a moot point...)
<LI>There was a seventh team in that conference that lived far enough away that the only way to get there was to fly. I'm fairly sure the conference didn't pay for officials to get there from the main official pool, so the only official pool would be the local townsfolk... I would wager that most of them were graduates of that high school... But I can't think of a better way that would work financially...
</ul>

I realize that these are some somewhat extreme cases, but they're something to think about...

[Sorry to switch sports but I do basketball and football.]

I was once asked to work a game in a small town at the same school in which I teach. We have very few officials who could get off work early and our school had no classes when there were sports on so I was available.

At the captains' conference, I asked the two captains if they had any questions and the home team captain turned to me and said: "Do we have a Math test tomorrow?" :-)

I do agree that each official and association must decide for themselves. I have done games for my own school and with fellow officials as the coaches. I have not run into any problems. However, there have been games and leagues for which we decided that it would be in the best interest not to work the game.

You cannot take it to a rediculous level though. For example, I hope to make it to the College level someday but I have attended three out of 10 of the province's colleges so I would be in trouble if they had an alma mater rule.

Let us talk ethics for a minute.
 

Let me ask you this, if it was me, prove it?

And if it was me, tell me what that has to do with ethics? I did not lose my job writing on an internet site because I posted private information over the internet. I still hold all my positions, do you Peter? I have not lost any games or any positions I hold. And in any rules of ethics that I read, complaining to a business is not one of them. I have found the whole thing funny. You lost your job because of an email. Whoever wrote the article, understood that you would play right into his or her hands. You did the most predictable thing, tell on yourself.

Keep trying to figure out who that person is. I can see that job was really special to you. Too bad you lost it.
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Peace

Re: Re: Let us talk ethics for a minute.
 

Wow, can I use that line?


Wow, did you come up with that all by yourself?


Guess what, I would rather have hair. I have more hair on my *** than Peter has on his head.

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Welcome to the board dumbass (or Peter)!!

Peace

That's pricless. :)

The smaller your area is, the better the chance, I guess, that you're going to run into situations where you could officiate a game involving people you know or schools you are familiar with. If it's going to be a big PITA, take yourself out of the situation. If you have been around long enough and people know what you're about, it shouldn't be an issue.

On a close call that is unpopular to one side (not that we ever have many of those), someone's going to question you no matter what you do, even if you went to school there 25 years ago. You can either eliminate the possibility altogether or just call your game and know that other people's issues are other people's issues and not yours.

Below a certain age, I think you can officiate your kids' game because below a certain age, there may not be enough people available to do it - and it's mostly for fun at that point anyway. If it's a question of "I have to officiate this game or the kids don't get to play," then you do it (my kids are 11 and almost 10, so we're at the point where that's not an option for me anyway).

I'm just still slightly amazed that the original story actually made the paper. Geez, talk about Small Town News.

Re: Let us talk ethics for a minute.
 

Oh, I gotta know the backstory on this one.

Our local football association has strict guidelines about what IS a conflict of interest, and encourages it's officials to make it known if they feel there may be a conflict that isn't included in the guidelines.

Our problem is in softball. I'm the UIC, and have all of 3 people working for me. Occasionally, some can't work. I actually had one game with me at the plate, and Jerry in the field. Jerry's wife coached one team, and his best friend for all his life coached the other team. (Luckily for Jerry it went smoothly with very few close plays!)