Conflicts of Interest

ljudge · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 06:52pm

I'm curious as to what level would we consider a conflict of interest. I got to thinking about that today when I read an article on a local newspaper's website.

http://www.nj.com/sports/gloucester/...2121278830.xml

But what if it wasn't so obvious like if your kid was in the band or a cheerleader. Or, if it was your alma mater in a town where you no longer live and it's been 15 years since you went to the school. I guess the real answer is "it depends" and there are no real rules per-se.

The umpire in the article is probably very fair and I don't know him so I can't and won't comment on his integrity. The only 2nd-guessing I would do is to not put myself in a situation where I could be judged to be biased.

But again, what if it were indirect? Cheerleader, Band, Pep-Squad, alma mater of 20 years and you no longer live there, etc. etc.

I'm sure the real answer is just using common sense to each unqiue situation.

Snake~eyes · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 08:04pm

Here's my belief, if you have family that goes to the school then you cannot work it, whether they are on the team or not. If you have recently gone there then you cannot work the school either. If you come back 15 years later and it happens to be the same coach or somthing along those lines then you are also out.

Why even chance this problem? Even if it is 15 years later, just cross the school off your list. There's a ton of other schools you can work.

kentref · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 09:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Here's my belief, if you have family that goes to the school then you cannot work it, whether they are on the team or not. If you have recently gone there then you cannot work the school either. If you come back 15 years later and it happens to be the same coach or somthing along those lines then you are also out.

Why even chance this problem? Even if it is 15 years later, just cross the school off your list. There's a ton of other schools you can work.

Couldn't agree more. If you've got a family connection to a school, then don't work a game involving that school; and never work a school you attended.

ref18 · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 10:34pm

A few times during the year, i worked on games where my cousin was playing. I just didn't know that before hand. Now with a son or daughter playing you shouldn't be able to use that excuse, but say you're doing a game with your old high school and its a road game for them. I usually don't find out who the away team is until I walk on the field, so sometimes it is impossible to avoid a conflict of interest. Although in a situation where one is present, I make sure to be as objective as I always am in my officiating.

Snake~eyes · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 10:41pm

In every sport I work I can X a school and I will never be assigned to work at that school. How hard is it to tell your assignor "don't schedule me to work blah blah blah games."

jumpmaster · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 11:41pm

my wife is a school teacher and I work games for the district she teaches in. However, I will not work a playoff game that involves that school, but this is a purely personal decision. Many of the officials in my area are from this area and call ball for the schools that they graduated from.

my belief - it is up to individual umpire to make this decision based upon input from his association. Most of us have a pretty good sense of what situations to avoid, use that judgement.

JRutledge · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 12:36am

I disagree with not working a school you attended.

For one it depends on your involvement with that school. I have officiated games at my alma mater a few times and it makes little or no difference to me. It is just another game. For one I know more people at other schools and have a closer relationship with people at schools that I have never attended. So is that more of a conflict than the school I attended and I know a few people from that same community? I can understand if that conflict is working a school where you family still attends and has very close ties, but to just say you can never work a school you attended is silly to me. Especially if you are talking about working lower level games. It might make more sense to work a JV game in the town or same school, rather than working an hour away to work that same level.

I think there are all kinds of conflicts, but if working at and alma mater is the main one, not sure what other conflicts you guys have run into. What if the head coach was my childhood friend? How far are we going to take these conflicts?

Peace

Snake~eyes · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 01:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I disagree with not working a school you attended.

For one it depends on your involvement with that school. I have officiated games at my alma mater a few times and it makes little or no difference to me. It is just another game. For one I know more people at other schools and have a closer relationship with people at schools that I have never attended. So is that more of a conflict than the school I attended and I know a few people from that same community? I can understand if that conflict is working a school where you family still attends and has very close ties, but to just say you can never work a school you attended is silly to me. Especially if you are talking about working lower level games. It might make more sense to work a JV game in the town or same school, rather than working an hour away to work that same level.

I think there are all kinds of conflicts, but if working at and alma mater is the main one, not sure what other conflicts you guys have run into. What if the head coach was my childhood friend? How far are we going to take these conflicts?

Peace

Although I agree that a childhood friend could cause confict, you should eliminate this school if you don't feel comfortable working, otherwise go for it. Oviously you might know some coaches, they may be your neighbors or you might know them from your other job, what ever the reason be. But I do think that if you have just come out of the HS then you should eliminate the school. I don't think you have to eliminate a school after 15yrs but if you believe it will cause headaches then why not do it. And I'm not saying everybody who comes out of the school will cheat for their school or even subconciously make calls for their school, but it does seem kind of hazy.

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 02:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
And I'm not saying everybody who comes out of the school will cheat for their school or even subconciously make calls for their school, but it does seem kind of hazy.

If that is hazy, then my relationship with all the people in a small town should be considered hazy as well.

My point is if we dig hard enough we can always find suspected conflicts. I think where you live are a huge difference than who Booster Club you support. I might live in a town, but it is another thing to work a school when I work on the School Board. I started officiating in a small town and it was hard to not work the local HS. And just working a couple of miles over does not eliminate those possible conflicts. All I am saying is that we cannot use a blanket gauge for where we work and where we do not work. I think it is much different if I am an employee of a school than just someone that lives in the area.

Peace

kentref · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 06:55am

I agree that one could dig up all types of "conflicts" depending on who you know, etc. The reason I stated previously that you should avoid working games that involved the school you attended was that most people will perceive that you have a conflict. Unfortunately, perception equals reality for a lot of folks.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 10:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by kentref
I agree that one could dig up all types of "conflicts" depending on who you know, etc. The reason I stated previously that you should avoid working games that involved the school you attended was that most people will perceive that you have a conflict. Unfortunately, perception equals reality for a lot of folks.

Well unless you live in the town that you went to HS in, it is very possible that no one even knows unless you tell them. That is my point. So when we are talking about at the HS level and below that would be really hard to find officials if we used that criteria to decide alone if someone can work a game or not. I know a lot of many schools that would not be able to find officials if that was the deciding factor. And they certainly could not have officials directly in the area, because someone attended either one of the schools playing the game.

Peace

Tundra Ref · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 11:23am

If I feel uncomfortable with the climate of the game, then I don't work it. This is a game by game decision. After all, you will get to know most of the coaches in your area over time anyway (whether you like it or not). A personal relationship doesn't mean you can't do a good job. That's one good thing about football; more officials make for a lessor ability for bias. I guess it is just your comfort level. I know the coaches well enough that every game I work I know someone somehow. I do think a good rule of thumb is to stay out of your home school, especially if there is more than one alum on your crew. You don't want to put yourself in an awkward situation.

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 03:07pm

All that I am saying is that you have to take each situation individually. There are some cases where attending that school would be a major problem. But there are other issues that might carry more conflicts, like being a good friend of a father of one of the players. For many that would be a conflict if they officiate a school they attended. I am just suggesting that is not the case for everyone and every situation. I also think it makes a really big difference if you are working a varsity game, as compared to a JV or Freshman game. Usually the only people available to work games at the lower level are officials that live close. In the game of football we also do not have the same type of control over a game as maybe other sports. I would not deny a crew a game because one guy on that crew has attended that school. Now if a playoff assignment is at stake that I can understand. But you are never going to eliminate all conflicts or possible conflicts when working games.

Peace

chiefgil · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 06:17pm

I didn't know it, but I had a LJ whose son was a receiver on the team.

When he committed a false start his Daddy flagged him. After the game the LJ was late coming off the field. When he finally showed up, he told me that his wife was giving the "what for" for flagging their son.

Nothing good can come out of that situation.

jjb · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 20, 2004, 09:00pm

I would not work a varsity game that involved a family member. Freshman and JV are a different story. We just do not have enough officials willing to travel far for underclass games.

How about this ... Mike Guman played tailback for Penn State while his father was on the officiating crew. Several games...

I'll draw the line at the JV level