NCAA Question

[mikesears]

2Q, 4 seconds remaining, A 1/10 @ B-15. A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B2. B2 runs the ball to the A-7 and the period expires during the down. After the interception and during the runback. B3 pushed A4 in the back at the A-45. Also after the interception, A5 grasps facemasks (5-yarder) B2. Options and results for each team (including extension of a period)?

Thanks!

[Uncle Ernie]

Originally posted by mikesears
2Q, 4 seconds remaining, A 1/10 @ B-15. A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B2. B2 runs the ball to the A-7 and the period expires during the down. After the interception and during the runback. B3 pushed A4 in the back at the A-45. Also after the interception, A5 grasps facemasks (5-yarder) B2. Options and results for each team (including extension of a period)?

If B declines the penalty for the facemask (i.e. to keep the ball), A will decline the penalty for the Illegal Block in the Back. Then the period would be over.

If B chooses to accept offsetting penalties, the period is extended and replay the down, A 1/10 B15.

[ABoselli]

Once B declines A's facemask, don't A's options go away? B did get the ball with clean hands. Why don't we enforce the block in the back from the end of the run?

I'm trying to learn NCAA enforcements and maybe I'm throwing Fed rules in.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by ABoselli
Once B declines A's facemask, don't A's options go away? B did get the ball with clean hands. Why don't we enforce the block in the back from the end of the run?

I'm trying to learn NCAA enforcements and maybe I'm throwing Fed rules in.

This is my question Can B decline A's foul if A declines B's foul?

[Theisey]

This is a classic example of the NCAA clean hands exception. Both fouls occured after a change of possession (however that is not a prereq for a team-A foul).
Team-B can keep the ball by declining the offsetting foul but their penalty can be completed under 3&1 principle.

The deal is that Team-A can now decline Team-Bs foul if they want to end the quarter. If they accept the foul, the period is extended.

The bottom line from a quote I remenber from Reddings NCAA guide is that the penalty against the team last in possession is not automatic. Always check

[Theisey]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikesears

This is my question Can B decline A's foul if A declines B's foul?

NCAA:
You have the order wrong, the real question is can A decline Bs foul if B has declined As foul. That answer is Yes.

[Edited by Theisey on Jun 11th, 2004 at 12:48 PM]

[ABoselli]

I see the 2004 book is finally available.

[Uncle Ernie]

I think this is a one of many good examples of the NCAA rule that any foul can be declined.

This question always gets me on a test. By the time I am done with everything, I always forget that A would want to have both fouls declined so the half would end.

For the NFHS guys and gals, would this be be different or the same result? In NFHS, can A decline the foul or does it have to be enforced, thus giving B a play?

[Matt-MI]

A has no choice-B gets an untimed down.

[Bob Floyd]

Originally posted by Matt-MI
A has no choice-B gets an untimed down.

Matt is correct. Check out Case Book play 10.2.2 Situation D. Once B declines A2's foul there are no more choices. B's foul is enforced and there is an untimed down. NF rules.

[Edited by Bob Floyd on Jun 11th, 2004 at 07:59 PM]

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by mikesears
2Q, 4 seconds remaining, A 1/10 @ B-15. A1 throws a pass that is intercepted by B2. B2 runs the ball to the A-7 and the period expires during the down. After the interception and during the runback. B3 pushed A4 in the back at the A-45. Also after the interception, A5 grasps facemasks (5-yarder) B2. Options and results for each team (including extension of a period)?

Thanks!

Canadian Ruling: we need to know where the ball was then B3 pushes A4 in the back. Let's say the A-50, because a push in the rear is more likely to occur ahead of the ball. Also, there is no 5y variety of FM in Canada. This foul will be applied at PF for the IB, the A-50. So, back 10 from the A-50, then up 15 for the FM. B 1D/10 @ A-45. Extend the period for one play.

[mikesears]

Thanks! Another question about how to approach some of my fellow NCAA officials. We had a meeting the other night discussing the CCA exam and being the new guy, I didn't want to push the issue. But they came to the conclusion that B would decline A's foul and then B would get an untimed down. They didn't feel that A could then decline B's foul. I didn't agree.

How would you suggest I approach this with them?

Thanks in advance.

[Theisey]

Well, you can tell them you have been doing some extra studying and research on this play and start off by pointing them to rule 10 which has a subsection stating that any penalty can be declined.

You could then show them this play from Rom Gilberts FOOTBALL RULES & INTERPRETATIONS EXTENDING A PERIOD - 2003 play situations , Play #15 at http://members.atlantic.net/~gilbertr/b-9721aw.htm

15. PLAY: 4th and 14 on A's 48. B37 catches A4's punt on B's 16 and advances to B's 47. Team A had an illegal formation. B86 holds on B's 46 during the punt. RULING: Team B could elect offsetting fouls and replay the down. Extend the period. If Team B declines offsetting fouls and Team A accepts the holding penalty, it is B's ball, 1st and 10, on B's 8. Extend the period. If Team B declines offsetting fouls and Team A decliness the holding penalty, the period ends.

You should order a copy of Rogers Reddings NCAA study guide which also has a play or two covering this. Or you can get a copy of the NF/NCAA football rules differences book as the two codes are different in this area.

[Uncle Ernie]

Or you could just tell them that any foul can be declined.