R1 catches a punt at his own three yard line and advances. R1 fumbles at the 8 yard line. R2 and K2 both muff the ball at the three yard line. The ball rolls into the endzone where a) R recovers; b) K recovers; c) R and K recover at the same time; or d) R kicks the ball out the back of the endzone. What's the call?

a) safety
b) TD K
c) safety
d) safety

REPLY: As long as the official rules that the force that put the ball into R's end zone was either R's fumble or R's subsequent muff, then Jim's answers are correct. If you rule that K2's muff is the force, the results would be different. Anyone want to tackle that situation??

All on K's force that put the ball in the EZ
a) touchback
b) touchdown
c) touchback
d) touchback

How did I do Bob???

REPLY: I like a), b), and c). For d), I agree that TB is the result of the play. But I assumed that R <u>intentionally</u> kicked the ball out of the EZ. How about that?

Bob-
Iagreee wiht your call of saftey if R did kick it out. But I was refering to the fact that K provided the force.
BTW, if R did intentionally kick it out, am I correct on the penalities:

decline: saftey
accept: 1/2 distance to GL, so R's ball 1/10 1.5?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sm_bbcoach

Quote:

Bob- I agreee with your call of saftey if R did kick it out. But I was refering to the fact that K provided the force. BTW, if R did intentionally kick it out, am I correct on the penalities: decline: saftey accept: 1/2 distance to GL, so R's ball 1/10 1.5?

REPLY: Whoa! I never said that the result of d) was a safety. I actually agreed with your call of TB. Remember that we're working under the assumption that <u>K's</u> muff is the force that put the ball into R's endzone. However, if R (intentionally) kicks the ball out of the endzone, it's a foul for illegally kicking the ball.
What type of play was in progress at the time of the foul? A running play
What's the basic spot (careful on this)? The <u>succeeding</u> spot -- R's 20 [Note: The final result of the play was a touchback -- NF 10-4-5d]
Apply the all-but-one and you get...? A safety since the foul occurred behind the basic spot.

And if K declines the penalty, we should probably put them on the Fed's Editorial Committee since it will be a TB --> R's ball 1-10 from his 20.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob M.

Quote:

REPLY: Whoa! I never said that the result of d) was a safety. I actually agreed with your call of TB. Remember that we're working under the assumption that <u>K's</u> muff is the force that put the ball into R's endzone. However, if R (intentionally) kicks the ball out of the endzone, it's a foul for illegally kicking the ball. What type of play was in progress at the time of the foul? A running play What's the basic spot (careful on this)? The <u>succeeding</u> spot -- R's 20 [Note: The final result of the play was a touchback -- NF 10-4-5d] Apply the all-but-one and you get...? A safety since the foul occurred behind the basic spot. And if K declines the penalty, we should probably put them on the Fed's Editorial Committee since it will be a TB --> R's ball 1-10 from his 20.

It's not going to matter for the final result of this play, but I would have to say that the basic spot for the illegal kick would be the end of the related run (the spot of the fumble), not the 20 yard line (using 10-4-4). As I said, the difference between the two does not have a bearing on the result of this play: if K accepts the penalty it will still be a safety, and declining it would still be a touchback.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PSU213

Quote:

It's not going to matter for the final result of this play, but I would have to say that the basic spot for the illegal kick would be the end of the related run (the spot of the fumble), not the 20 yard line (using 10-4-4). As I said, the difference between the two does not have a bearing on the result of this play: if K accepts the penalty it will still be a safety, and declining it would still be a touchback.

REPLY: I agree that it's not going to matter in this play, but I'm curious why you would use the end of the related run as the basic spot. Why would you not use 10-4-4 to establish it?