Deflect responsibility?!?

How about the DB that held up the receiver at the line? He's off the hook because the covering guy had the stones to call it like he saw it? Please.

I love how coaches always seem to blame the officials for throwing flags and ignore the fact that there was an actual foul by an actual player- and then these same coaches go on rants about how it is that we generalize about them.

[Edited by AndrewMcCarthy on Oct 22nd, 2003 at 12:53 PM]

Mr. Boselli,

Thanks for illustrating my point. You are exactly right...how many guys are walking around with NC on their resumes? Not too many. Which is why I say, doggone it, it does matter.

You are right, I must conceed that it probably wouldn't be the difference in how well I supported my family, but it does impact the level of how I support my family.

Tressel, by the way, was recruited HEAVILY by D-Is...he chose to wait for OSU. But that was his choice...and one that was not impacted by any outside forces. Dissimilar circumstances than the ones we are debating in my opinion.

Yes, I think we are all striving to be the best that we can be at what we do.

Mr. McCarthy,

The issue is not the call/no-call...the issue is whether or not one call impacted the outcome of the game...which I say it did.

I have no vested interest as to who won the thing...couldn't care less to be perfectly honest. But for anyone to say that one call doesn't impact the outcome of the game...I simply say that is ludicrous.

Was it the call or the foul?

Sounds like you want us to put our flags away toward the end of the game and let everything go because our CALL might be the decider.

All plays impact the outcome of the game. That play could have been at the end of the third quarter and totally changed the course of events. The key for officials is to call it consistantly from beginning to end- then it's the players who make the difference in the outcome.

Mr. McCarthy,

No, not at all. If it is the right call, then call it. That is not what I am saying.

What I am saying is that if there is no DPI, then the ball game is over and the Canes win. Therefore, the call does impact the outcome of the game.

My point was that if there really was no DPI (which is not what I am saying), then Miami had the game taken away.

So, my point is, that particular call, one play, one call, must be right by the officials, because it DOES ultimately decide the game. No call -- the game is over; call -- the game continues.

Ed has a good point: Coaches need to know rules basics and trust in the stripes.

Case in point: A coach complained about a block in the back when his team snapped the ball to a back on a fake punt play. He said, "He was in the clip zone." Firstly, there is no clip zone. There IS a free blocking zone, but, secondly, it is gone as soon as the ball has traveled 3 yds in the air. It is impossible to legally block from behind in this situation. There simply isn't enough time to get behind someone.

A little knowledge of the rules is more dangerous than none.

I give coaches latitude when they complain about a judgment call. But complaining about rules of which they are ignorant, that galls me.

Coaches, if you are going to complain about application or knowledge of a rule, know what you are talking about first.

Maybe we're saying the same thing, maybe not. What I would say is no foul -- the game is over; foul -- the game continues.

Welcome to the board- I think you missed about 500 posts on this play back in January.

Mr. McCarthy,

You are absolutely right...a better choice of words for me would have been foul. We were saying the same thing the whole time, and didn't even realize it (at least I didn't...but I have learned, from now on, when I discuss something with an official, I will make sure that I use the word "foul" vice "call," because I have come to realize in this discussion that the word "call" has a negative connotation and seemingly puts officials on the defensive...see, we coaches can learn).

And yes, I am new to this board, and I had a feeling that this example was going to cause some angst.

Oh well, you live you learn. Hopefully, I haven't wasted anyone's time, I sure have enjoyed this.

If Miami blocks the blitzer on the final play, Miami stays alive. They didn't, so they lost - that had just as much impact on the game. If Krenzel doesn't throw for a 1st down on 4th and whatever in OT, the game is over. If Clarett doesn't chase down the Miami DB and take the ball back, different game - all big plays that decided the game. The ones at the end just get more scrutiny.

My point about national championships is that there are a finite number of national championships to be won every year. Only a few coaches will even be in the game and half will lose. That leaves 97% of the coaches that were never there / lost the game. If they lose out to the 3% that did win for a job they are both chasing, such is life. Chances are, though, that most coaches competing for jobs will not have a national championship on their resume.

No worries at all. Believe it or not, there are actually some coaches that post on here who we look forward to hearing from!

And if you have a way of posting some game footage for us to dissect- then you'll see some real disagreement!

Where <i>is</i> Jim Nayzium?

Lets replace a few words in the quote that you have above. Bear with me because I think its worth looking at from this point too!



The ref was in the right position, had the view of the play he wanted, and executed to the best of his ability. The player's actions made the difference.

Whether the player's actions were right or wrong is debateable, but the actions did make a difference in that game.

Your assumption is incorrect.
 

What you're not realizing is that I made the comment from an official's point of view. I don't know that coaches "teach to always place the head in front of a player to assist the official in making the correct call." I'm not a coach, so I don't know that you teach that. Therefore, that is not why I made the statement.

I made the statement because I hear fans, players, coaches, AND officials make the statement, "It couldn't have been blocking in the back because his head was in the front." Well, that's bull$hit. When I throw a flag for blocking in the back, I have no earthly idea where the player's head is. I'm watching where the contact is. I could care less where his head is, therefore teaching the player's to "place the head in front of a player to assist the official in making the correct call," is worthless advice. Now, that's not written to make you angry. And from a coach's standpoint, you may not believe that. But from an official's standpoint, it's absolutely true.

That's why I said "it doesn't make a tinker's damn where his head is," because I'm not looking at his head. I'm looking at the contact.

As far as coach's knowing the rules better than officials, IMHO it's rare. I work the sideline and I can truthfully tell you that I've never worked a game where I didn't have to either:

1- explain what call was made and why

or

2- explain a rule to a coach that he did not know or was confused or wrong about.

That's "never" in 15 years. So, no, I don't buy it.

But you know what, I can live with it. Coaches aren't paid to know the rules, they're paid to coach. They're paid to strategize. Yes, it's helpful if they have a basic knowledge but it's not absolutely necessary that the know every detail. I know very little about play calling or play design. I don't need to know it. It's not my job.

In any case, I hope that clears the air surrounding my statement. It certainly wasn't meant the way you took it.

I know its a small point but I disagree with the people who say a coach doesn't need to know the rules. It is a coaches job to know about the game of football, therefor in my opinion he needs to know the rules and fully understand them. He needs to know them just as well as officials because officials make mistakes too, they are human like everyone else but these mistakes can be big and can sometimes cost games. A coach needs to know everything so he can be ready to call a timeout to challenge a misapplication of the rule.

And I'm not talking about youth club. Its great that a dad is out there just trying to teach kids about having fun and I have no problem explaining the most basic concepts to these people. But when it gets to HS where the coach is paid and where its more about a winning record than having fun, that is when a coach needs to know the rulebook. At this level basic rules shouldn't have to be explained. The fact that theres no such thing as an uncatchable pass or QB outside the pocket shouldn't even have to be mentioned.

That's my opinion.

[Edited by Snake~eyes on Oct 22nd, 2003 at 09:56 PM]

MN BB Ref,

Fair assessment. And you are right, it is the player that is responsible for what happens, not the official. The way you described it is really what I meant. I will still say, however, that if the official makes the wrong call (I am not saying that he did) in that situation, it does change the outcome of the game.

BktBallRef,

1- explain what call was made and why

I guess I don't understand what your point is here. What does this have to do with the coach's knowledge of the rules? Because I ask you what call was made and why is not implicit to my not knowing the rules. Many times in the game, I would ask this particular question because I may have not seen a block in the back, for example, but that doesn't mean I don't know what a block in the back is. Please elaborate on what you mean here.

2- explain a rule to a coach that he did not know or was confused or wrong about.

You got me here, this probably happens too often. Which is why I say coaches need to know the rules. It doesn't happen to me because I feel like I have a thorough knowledge of the rules...not trying to brag here, it is just something that I feel is very important, because as I have pointed out several times on this site, I think that one play can be the difference in a game, and I can't afford for my lack of knowledge of the rules to be a decider. So I agree wholeheartedly with Snake~eyes.