2019 Rules Changes
|
Hooray. The only thing I would've added is to start the game clock on runs OOB outside of 2 minutes in each half.
|
I still have questions. Is this a case where the NF took on a college rule without the actual guidance of all the little things that come up with this rule. Like what is going to happen if we cannot put the ball in play at a certain time? What signals do we give if we are resetting the shot clock? Are there going to be ball boy strategies for this newer policy?
Even at the small college level, we have problems with this being done right. I see this even more so at the high school level as well. Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Peace |
I like the new change. There will be some issues with the clock initially. Hopefully they get them ironed out before too long. One that I really liked was the change of illegal formation, where you need at least 5 on the line with no more than 4 back. I believe this will make it easier.
|
You could never have more than 4 in the backfield.
It just eliminated those times when the offense had only 10 players on the field with 6 on the line and 4 in the backfield. That was previously an illegal formation |
Quote:
You'd think the article might've summarized the "thorough discussion" that led up to the 40 sec. Seems to me that if 25 secs. (or any specified amount of time) from the RFP is good for the situations it's going to be used in, it should be good for all situations. I'd like to know what the argument is for the variation, which seems just one more chance to goof. I'm guessing the effect on the game, other than making its administr'n a tiny bit harder, will be a slight one allowing the team on offense to take a little more tiime off the period clock, since if it ever took significantly more than 15 sec. to ready the ball for play, the officials would take a time out, so it'll never reduce the time available to play the ball. |
Quote:
Anybody know how many seasons running that tripping the runner had been legal in Fed? It wasn't long IIRC, for values of "long" that this old-timer's used to. Funny the order they choose to present rule changes in this article; maybe they want to live down the fact that legalizing tripping the runner had been a fairly recent change, so they bury the anmt of the change back. Hell, they chose to present some highly technical spec about the numbers on the uniforms above the tripping & horse collar changes! |
Without play clocks at any of the schools we work at, I think the back judge is going to have his hands full with two different lengths of clocks to keep. 40 seconds for typical plays--25 seconds for special plays. I don't think most watches keep two saved alarms.
A lot of coaches who want their quarterbacks to come to the sideline every play are going to be surprised how quick 40 seconds is from the end of the play. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Practically, there is no "no man's land." A player is either on or off and it can be a blade of grass that's the difference. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
Quote:
|
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Usually, a series of football plays requires play begins with a "Scrimmage Down formation". Without a minimal formation requirement definition, there would be chaos.
This "revision" seems a, basically immaterial, attempt to pacify those whining for a, somewhat, meaningless semantics change, that should clarify the retention of a requirement for 5 players numbered between 50-79 and no more than 4 players, satisfying the requirements of being a "back".(both of which that have clearly existed, and was universally understood, for decades) |
Quote:
|
Quote:
This is a great change. Why should it be a foul to have 6 on the line when there are only 4 backs? We're penalizing a team for not having enough players on the field -- that's madness that I'm glad is over. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
We received an email about the readyref. It has two settings. If we had the old NFHS one we could send it in and get it reprogrammed for a fee plus return postage. If we were to buy a new one we were told to get the NCAA model. I was hoping that clocks would be put on the field, but that would cost a few thousand dollars for each school. I don't see that happening. |
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
When there is only 6 men on the line, with 4 backs, it will hopefully still fall under positive "Preventive Officiating" practices to "highlight" the shortage before the snap to avoid an unnecessary foul, and penalty, (at the Interscholastic level) where possible. |
Quote:
There is no foul this year. There are 4 backs or fewer and at least 5 on the line. This is the rule change. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Illegal numbering is different than illegal formation. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
Quote:
The 4 backs can wear whatever number they want, but choosing numbers between 50-79, will restrict forward pass eligibility. The remaining 2 players can also wear whatever #s they want, risking the same FP eligibility restrictions. What has actually changed, other than who "WE" first count to verify and confirm formations are legal. WE still have to be aware if after we count 4 backs, there aren't MORE than 7 on the line, or if one of the remaining 7 lined up incorrectly as a back. |
Quote:
Anyway, in case you don't get what I'm complaining about, this change has fixed the situation where one of the ends is missing, but not the situation where a guard or tackle is missing. In that case, team A is still getting penalized for playing short. It would've been just as easy for the rule to be written to have a maximum # of eligible shirts, rather than a minimum # of ineligible ones, on the line. But noooo.... |
Quote:
:D Of course, the NCAA blocking-below-the-waist rules are slowly working their way toward the NFHS rules... so it goes both ways. But that's a discussion for another thread. |
The five refers to the linemen # 50-79. This is shorthand for the press release. It is not the rulebook.
If they have: 80 77 65 50 72 66 12 44 22 39 was formerly an illegal formation foul, now this is not a foul. If they have: 80 77 65 50 66 88 12 44 22 39 The foul would be for illegal numbering but not formation. If they have: 80 77 65 50 66 75 12 44 88 22 39 The foul would be illegal formation for having more than 4 in the back field. |
Quote:
The info in the press release is nice to know, but wait until the rule books are published before we start worrying about the semantics and what it all means. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'll go farther than that. Actually it would make a difference to the defense in some cases identifying eligible receivers -- an improvement. What happens if team A lines up in an 8-player front, with both the ends & an interior lineman wearing eligible nos.? The receiver would be eligible by #, ineligible by position, which is a headache for both the officials & the defense. Putting a max on the no. of eligible #s on the OL would preclude that scenario, making it illegal to snap in that formation. It wouldn't preclude all scenarios like that, because they can still line up "end over" or in some other ways having one of the eligible #s interior, sacrificing an eligible receiver, but it would at least take away this one case. |
How much endless nit-picking and pure speculation do we need to endure to satisfy EVERY imaginative possibility that this rule adjustments amounts to, "Much ado about nothing".
Unfortunately, it's likely that those inclined to find some unique niche, that they think will give them some creative advantage, will keep searching, creating situations that will depend on the common sense and "spirit of good sportsmanship" of Referees to resolve. Thankfully, NFHS 1-1-6 remains intact and unchanged. |
Quote:
You are wrong. (1) Wings only need to count backs. No need to see if there are 10 or 12 on the field. (2) When there are 10, there will be fewer penalties that did nothing but hurt an already shorthanded team and interrupted the game. This is a big change, but not worth agonizing over. There I'll agree. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I meant 12. R and U count the offense. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
Quote:
Our experiment allowed us to request balls for both teams on both sides to be help with ball mechanics. Our crew did that every week unless the coach protested. That happened once or twice each season. It messed us up only because we had a much better rhythm the other way. But we still didn't have any issues getting a ball ready in plenty of time. It was just more running for the U back and forth between some plays. I know some states don't allow ANY changing of balls during a drive and chase down every incomplete pass. I would recommend that mechanic change if you are doing that. Quote:
The key benefit to this rule is the CONSISTENCY from dead ball to delay of game. If you actually timed it, the normal range was probably 12-15 seconds but for various reasons it could vary from 7 seconds to 25 seconds. That meant some plays the offense had 32 seconds to get their next play called and run and other times it was 50 seconds. Even with a good crew and a consistent pace it probably varied 5-8 seconds throughout the game. With a 40-second play clock that is one. The situations where you still use 25 seconds, it's because you are administering something that normally takes an extended period of time (i.e. penalty administration, team time out, injury, change of possession) so even if you did start a 40 it would run out before you were done with any of that. This doesn't affect the length much at all. If you had a crew that took forever to start the play clock when the game clock is stopped (thus extending the amount of time it takes to complete the game) you will have as many times where they killed more time for the same reason. We haven't found the length of games to be much different. The only possible impact is at the end of blowouts when you are milking as much clock before the RFP is blown you may extend a game 3-5 minutes. We often tell our play clock operators to wait a couple extra seconds before starting the 40 also. If you don't have visible play clocks you have more flexibility keeping it on the field. Nobody is going to care if you are allowing 40 or 60 seconds in that situation. Quote:
As for getting used to a "faster" pace, if the crew was doing a good job and being consistent the timing was probably 38-42 seconds already so it won't be that big of an adjustment. I heard we had referees that would allow the QB to go to the sideline, get the play, return to the huddle, call the play and then start the RFP when the huddle broke. If you had crews doing that, then yes there will be adjustment. We still have QBs going to the sideline to get plays and having no issues getting the ball snapped. 40 seconds is still a lot of time to do all that if that's how you want to run your offense. Quote:
Don't make this any more complicated than it is. The rule now just matches the way most of us have officiated it. It's hard for wings to see if they have 7 linemen (or 3 on their side of the snapper) because they are lined up in a straight line from their view. Since I started nearly 20 years ago, we've been taught to look for 4 in the backfield assuming there were 11 on the field. If the R/U signaled there were only 10 then we would make sure there were only 3 in the backfield. Now they don't have to worry at all how many are on the field. As long as there are fewer than 5 in the backfield they are good with formation. The U will still verify the 5 linemen numbered 50-79. Teams very rarely sub out interior linemen during a series so the missing player is not often a lineman. They maybe are in a scrimmage kick formation but there exceptions at play there already. This was a long overdo rule change that simply syncs up with what most crews have been doing for decades and removes what was a silly foul when it had to be called. Quote:
This is definitely the best set of rule changes we've had in years. They are all common changes that make our jobs easier and help with the flow of the game. Other than the confusion over the minimum of 5 on the line being included unnecessarily I think they did a great job! |
Quote:
I also did not say we had problems getting the ball in play. I said that we do not have ball boys like college. So when there is a deep incomplete pass, they do not have people in place to get another ball and chase the other ball. I can ask them to do this and they would look at us with 5 heads because if the ball goes to the other sideline, are they getting the ball? Nope. We often have a little kid that is bringing out the ball and yes they do not bring out the ball all the time when requested. Even at the college level we have terrible ball boys where we are having to constantly talk to them about when to get us a ball properly. The bottom line is it is one thing to take on a rule that has all the other procedures in place to make this transition smooth, it is another when you have many procedures missing. That is the concern. I am the crew chief on our crew and I set the tone. Nothing I say is going to automatically make this easier because I ask the teams to do something when they are not prepared to accommodate or they have never heard what I am asking. And most of all I cannot make any school put up a play clock on the field because I said so. I was a two-time State Final Back Judge as well, we often had issues with teams getting read before the clock when we would never have a single game other than the State Finals with a play clock. I did not say issues as a crew, my mechanics or routine was the same, but there were still teams not aware of how quickly that time runs. Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Where I'm from: R and U count offense. Both look for numbering issues. B and L count defense. H helps count defense, but primarily deals with the chains. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
Quote:
I said that we do not have a ball boy system like college or there is no requirement in this area (and I have worked all over the state) where there are ball boys to facilitate bringing the ball into the game like they do at the NCAA level. We have issues at times with wet ball mechanics when we tell the teams they can bring in a new ball every single play because they give that responsibility to some kid (sometimes a very little kid) that is not paying attention. I have worked on the biggest stage in the state and we had the same "one ball" system used in those games too, but at least we do not start the RFP or play clock until we set the ball down for the next play. Now if the ball is passed onto the track and way out of bounds or in the stands, we either had to get that ball that was thrown there back on the field or we have no one prepared to bring in a new ball like you would in a college or pro game. So unless we have a different rule than the NCAA rule, incomplete passes still have a 40-second clock after the play is over. It is pretty easy to get the next ball on the field when we have ball boys on each sidelines with both teams balls in their hand. Not the case in this state or region of the state I normally work. It might take more than 20 seconds to get the ball in play on long incomplete passes in some cases along with the back judge or other officials trying to case down the ball instead of consentrating on where the play clock is at the time. Coaches get upset about all kinds of stupid things, this will cause conflict if there is no play clock visable to everyone, especially near the end of a half. And when you do not have a visible clock or it takes time to get the ball down because of this reality, it might cause some issues if coaches and players are not aware of where the clock is at during those plays. If we have those issues during a 25-second clock that was not visible, you think this might be a problem during the current rule? Yes, I think that could be a problem at certain times during a game. When we had malfunctions or clock started at the wrong time in a college game, it was so that everyone could see the clock on some level. Now we do not have many fields with visible play clocks on the field. It is a problem here when officials keep the game clock on the field and there are complaining about the time of games, so why would the play clock not be an issue? And again, I am not talking about me having the issue, I am talking about the situation. That is why I do not like to work lower level games without a game clock because it eliminates the debating over what can be seen. When everybody gets a visible play clock at their fields, many of these issues will go away other than the possible mistakes made by the person running the clock. But until then, I think this has some situations we will have to deal with every game. We have to deal with play clock issues when there are NCAA games, so why is this going to be utopia? As a basketball official where we have a shot clock, that is an issue at the NCAA or NAIA level, so not sure why we think this rule change will not have any issues for a while if other levels have issues with who is running those devices. NCAA Men's basketball changes even a few rules about when, and where the clock is set a few years ago and we are constantly having to make corrections to make sure the rule is followed. It is better a few years out, but when the rules changed, it was constant issues or debate. Peace |
For those of you who claim to have some all-powerful ball boy policy where they are all over the age of 18, work both sides of the field, attentive, and work like demons to keep a new, dry ball in play- I raise my glass to you.
For those of us dealing with 10 year old sons of the coaches, who would rather be hanging with their buds at the c-stand, who look at me like I'm an alien being when I ask if they brought a towel, who when I call "BALL, please" either ignore me or chuck it 10 yards over my head- I'll lay good money down that there are more of us than there are of you. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Our ball boys are also often 10-14 year old boys who are sons of the coaches. I'm sure there are variations in expectations from crew to crew, but the ball boys we work with generally are on the ball. Any delay in getting a ball may result in the new ball being placed with 22 seconds rather than 28 seconds, but none of that affects the ability of the offense to do their subs, call their plays and get it snapped in 40 seconds. Yes it affects the team who wants to go fast because they are waiting for the ball to get spotted, but they aren't going to worry about the end of the play clock because they want to snap the ball ASAP. And they have to wait just as long regardless of 40 or 25. Hopefully you get support from the state or your associations for having ball boys to be alert. If not work with the ball boys as best as you can and encourage them to be alert. Often there is an assistant coach who is responsible for the ball boys so work with him. Worst case your back judge will likely be helping to fetch the incomplete pass and he can get that ball to you. If the play clock has run down too far then reset it to 25. That happens to us once or twice a year. Good luck! |
Quote:
Here is my thing, I really do not care either way. It is what it is. Ball boys even at the college level are often bad. We just have a procedure there to make it work a little better and we also have 7 officials as well to make it work. We have 5 right now at the high school level and unless that changes, ball boys would be a luxury and a problem at the same time. Either way, the NF had to know this when they put in the rule that many states do not have visible clocks and certainly does not have ball boys. I will be waiting as I did during before this current basketball season to figure out if they did not consider all the challenges that will occur with a new rule. We will see what happens when everything comes out for real. Peace |
Quote:
It was such a glowing success the states who did experiment were very concerned they would have to go back. I'm not sure if we would have given up our seat on the rules committee, but it would have definitely been a consideration. I did not speak with one coach or official who didn't love the change. And until our commissioner proposed the experiment 3 years ago I don't believe there was a huge demand for it. I have a hard time believing your ball boys are that incompetent they can't figure this out. I know several HS and small college officials in Illinois and none of them have raised the concerns you have at either level so I don't expect it to be an issue in your area. I think you will be just fine. |
Quote:
Quote:
The rule just came out. So I am not so sure you know everyone that might have raised this issue or talked to everyone that implemented the rule. It is a conversation at this point. It does not mean the world is coming to an end. We are months away from any regular meetings about the topic in most areas so I would suspect many people are doing other sports and probably not fixated on football to even raise some issues. It might be nothing in the end. But I have been doing this awhile and rules like the Horsecollar foul or adding PSK or even putting in how fouls are administered after a score, all had issues when the rule came out and took some tweaking to get to where they are today. We have a rules interpreter that tells us every year, "It takes the NF 3 years to get a rule change right." And part of that statement is the frustration of how a rule is added but does not cover the little things that make it run smoothly and either our state or the NF has to come back to clarify something that was not covered properly. Honestly, I do not think it was necessary. We play fewer minutes in a game and they could have gone back to other rules they once had to speed up the game, like running the clock after a change of possession. We already have mercy rules that speed up games that are out of hand. It is the rule now, but was it so great of a change? No, not to me. Peace |
Considering the :40 sec clock is going to affect the offense the most and it's the offense whose ball has most likely gone out of play to the track or fence, it will be incumbent on them to insure that their ball person(s) are doing their utmost to retrieve it or get another one in play.
I imagine that if there is some inordinate delay, the Referee has the ability to blow it dead and re-set to the :25. Certainly would seem to be an item that needs to be covered by state offices at the coaches clinics this summer. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
We will just have to deal with the issue. Heck I am good as when these become problems, likely the teams helped cause them. Peace |
Been working NCAA rules my entire career -- never worked a game under Fed rules. I'm shocked it took Fed so long to catch up to the 40 second clock. In fact, I think Fed rules in football are obsolete, but that's a different topic for a different time.
I've worked now a couple of hundred or so games under the 40 second clock including subvarsity (HS and jr. high) and on fields without play clocks. For most of our subvarsity, we don't enforce a strict play clock. unless the game situation calls for it (team ahead late has ball, etc.). In fact, we don't even turn on the clock for games on fields where there is a clock. I always work SV games with a belt timer so I can easily from any position work the 40 by using the hand up (10 seconds) and side count (5 seconds and lower) mechanic. We've used this in varsity games as well on fields that don't have a clock. If (SV) teams are running a good pace, I don't worry about it -- I just time timeouts. For varsity games we do enforce the clock rules and even in situations where there isn't a visible clock, we don't have very many complaints. I can't even remember one, honestly, on a legit delay of game foul. Maybe a question but after we told them when we started it and why, they accept it. The only times the 40 will really come into play on normal situations are long plays and deep pass incompletions. Good ball mechanics with 4-5 officials SHOULD keep things working OK. If not, just reset and blow the ready. Its no big deal. As a varsity R, not having the blow the ready every play leaves me free to concentrate on other things like substitutions, numbering, and communicating with my crew. Just get your clock guys to understand that they start the clock at the END of each play -- no exceptions. They can always turn off the play clock and reset if there's a penalty enforcement or other issue. For some reason, we've had experienced Referees running play clocks recently still not work the play clock correctly. Have a good pregame with the clock guys the first 3-4 weeks of the season, inform the coaches of where issues might arise in scrimmages, and you should have a smooth transition. After that, you'll wonder why they ever had it any other way. |
Quote:
In HS, we often have jr. high kids -- sometimes only 1 or 2 per sideline and always the same as that team. No crossover. We struggle sometimes but we still get it done. It just takes some effort with the wing officials. It is obviously easier with 7 officials but you can do it with 5. I can't recall a single HS game where the ball boys caused a significant 40 second clock snag during the game. I mean, yeah, there were times it may have happened and maybe my guys were good enough to cover up for it, but I can think of smaller school games where we had chain crew issues (team fans/adults) more than ball boy issues. Maybe I'm just used to it or again, maybe just lucky. We've worked a lot of 7 man the last 2 years in HS but most of my 40 second clock varsity games in HS have been 5 man. We've walked into locker rooms after games with my wing guys commenting on ball boys but I don't recall thinking, "yeah, they really hampered us tonight in a big way." |
I thought the 7 on the line rule was dead a long time ago. Wow. I don't even remember when the NCAA changed that.
|
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
What's the issue? The 40 second clock doesn't solve every problem but it also doesn't create a problem where none existed. You'll see the benefits on plays other than the ones you described. |
Quote:
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
|
Quote:
And none of this matters because the rules at the NCAA has built-in remedies for issues for the play clock, where the NF rule at this time does not at this time. Every NCAA game we have a visible play clock and I know we will not have that at the high schools I will work this coming season. Two completely different concerns and that is not going to make me say this was a great change. I see nothing that makes this better. HS we play a shorter game anyway and not unusual to have a running clock during games. Peace |
We typically have 2 balls on each sideline and I can't remember a single time we'd have had to stop the play clock (with the 40) and reset.
This is a non-issue if officials know when to get the second ball from the ball boy. And if you only have one ball in a game.....I don't know what to say. We don't work freshman games where there's only one football per team. |
Quote:
Peace |
Quote:
We almost always check at least 3-4 balls from each team. I know your schools have them if needed. They just need someone (IHSA would be better than the officials) to request multiple balls checked so ball mechanics can be done efficiently. You could live with 2 but 3 or 4 is definitely better. It's not rocket science and most other states seem to do it that way. I know this one is beyond your control. |
Quote:
Quote:
Peace |
Remember where this method of starting the play clock began? It was in the WLAF in 1991, which means the NFL was using it to experiment with.
What was the problem they were seeking to address? Variation of the amount of time a team that wanted to exhaust the period clock would have, due to variation in the amount of time officials took to ready the ball after a running play -- which for pro football wasn't much variation. The amount of time a team that wanted to bleed off the clock could would differ only between plays that ended with a ballcarrier's going down bounds. When the period clock was running, the team on defense could delay the RFP a little by being slightly uncooperative to a degree the officials would not stop the clock. But if the offense wanted to hurry up, having a fixed amount of time between downs with the clock running did not help against such tactics by the defense. It helped only if the team on offense wanted to consume time and the officials were slow, and only when the preceding play left the clock running. The amount of time the WLAF used at first for this, 35 seconds, produced a pace that was slightly faster than even Canadian football's and was difficult for offenses to use any plays where they had to get a good pre-snap look at the defense or to signal anything complicated, so the NFL never adopted that short a time; when they finally did adopt such a procedure, they made it 45 seconds, which proved in a few years to be a lavish amount of time for them. |
Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13am. |